high nitrates

[sergifed91]

I went to my LFS. had them test my water. Nitrite 5.0 and Nitrates 160+. I have been keeping track of the progress in a note book. they recommended doing a 80% water change to get them down. I did tell them I'm cycling my tank. I had them look at my notes of the progress and they still recommended a WC. I went ahead and did one. and my nitrates are still over 160+. I stirred up the substrate in the tank. would that also cause the high nitrates and maybe should I get a CUC tomorrow and could that help with lowering my Nitrates and also ordered some micro algea to help with the nitrates. I realize that would get the nitrates down immediately but will it do more harm than good. and should I do more water changes after I see what I get for a reading tomorrow morning? or should I do a 100% water change at this point. should I bypass ammonia at this point and just wait til Friday to see what I get for reading on my nitrate levels?

60g tank
rodi water. tested for nitrates and nitrite before I mixed salt and then after. all at 0.
HOB filter. do not have the filters in at this time.
2 heaters
2 air pumps
I have 2 Aqueon circulation 950 water pumps(wave makers) only utilizing 1 at this time.
mixture of live and dry rock(cured).
40lbs of live sand.
been dosing ammonia up until last Saturday.
using API Master test kit.

 

[Smo]

How long has the tank been cycling and what ammonia source have you been adding?

 

[sergifed91]

How long has the tank been cycling and what ammonia source have you been adding?

4 weeks into cycle and been adding pure ammonia. I'm thinking my test kit is fubarred for the nitrate side. I just ordered a new one from Amazon. I'm staying away from API. Clearly the nitrate test is faulty. No way could it be that high. Even after a water change.I'm heading back to pcs tomorrow to get it retested.

 

[Smo]

Never dose something you cannot accurately test. I’d stop adding ammonia and watch the nitrites come down to zero. I would not expect your nitrates to be so high only three weeks into a cycle.

 

[clover128]

Are you repeatedly dosing with ammonia?

 

[sergifed91]

Are you repeatedly dosing with ammonia?

no I stopped on Saturday. Hoping my nitrates would go down.

 

[clover128]

Check out this video if you haven’t already:

 

[nereefpat]

Any nitrite present will cause your nitrate test to read artificially really high. It's mostly useless to test for nitrates when nitrites are still present.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Adding ammonia to a new tank is not something that needs to be done continuously. If you are going to add ammonia continuously to feed bacteria, you only need to add a very small amount. Any ammonia you add to the tank is going to get turned into nitrates, so this is why your nitrates are so high. What type of ammonia did you add and how much have you added to the tank?

With regards to stirring the sand bed, the sand bed will not release nutrients if it contains no nutrients. The only way stirring a sand bed will release nutrients when stirred is in an established tank, where food and waste has settled into the sand.

 

[jda]

Stirring sand is almost never a good idea unless this is part of a specific plan with a minimalistic sand approach (similar to barebottom). The sand need to be left alone so that it can divide, if deep enough, into oxic and anoxic areas. The anoxic areas can take a long time (9-12 months) to develop, but they are what turns your nitrate into nitrogen gas... this is the last part of the cycle that makes your tank really "mature."

As for gunk in the sand. It is nearly all benign. Dr. Holmes Farley has stated that almost all P comes from urine and any carbon that was left in poo is quickly scavenged. What is left does fall into the sand and really does nothing. This also is true for the gunk that accumulates in your sump... I like to get it out because it can "gum up" the works, but there is no real hurry.

I would not test for nitrate for about three months. Stop the ammonia dosing - the live rock and dry rock was enough and you never needed to add ammonia in the first place. CUC is not going to work with a cycling tank or with high N numbers... they will just die and add to the confusion. Your tank will be able to establish some sort of an equilibrium on it's own if you can stop interfering with it... get a fish, feed it, wait for the algae blooms and cycles, wait for them to subside, add another fish or two and feed them appropriately and see where you are in a few months. High initial nitrates, algae blooms and getting annoyed at waiting are all part of the game, but you have to get past them because every action that you take to interfere will be repaid many more times later on down the line.

 

[sergifed91]

Stirring sand is almost never a good idea unless this is part of a specific plan with a minimalistic sand approach (similar to barebottom). The sand need to be left alone so that it can divide, if deep enough, into oxic and anoxic areas. The anoxic areas can take a long time (9-12 months) to develop, but they are what turns your nitrate into nitrogen gas... this is the last part of the cycle that makes your tank really "mature."

As for gunk in the sand. It is nearly all benign. Dr. Holmes Farley has stated that almost all P comes from urine and any carbon that was left in poo is quickly scavenged. What is left does fall into the sand and really does nothing. This also is true for the gunk that accumulates in your sump... I like to get it out because it can "gum up" the works, but there is no real hurry.

I would not test for nitrate for about three months. Stop the ammonia dosing - the live rock and dry rock was enough and you never needed to add ammonia in the first place. CUC is not going to work with a cycling tank or with high N numbers... they will just die and add to the confusion. Your tank will be able to establish some sort of an equilibrium on it's own if you can stop interfering with it... get a fish, feed it, wait for the algae blooms and cycles, wait for them to subside, add another fish or two and feed them appropriately and see where you are in a few months. High initial nitrates, algae blooms and getting annoyed at waiting are all part of the game, but you have to get past them because every action that you take to interfere will be repaid many more times later on down the line.

I won't do anything other than maybe the usual cleaning of the glass and HOB filter and occasionally wipe off the wave maker. I have stopped all dosage of ammonia. so at this point just go out and get a fish or 2 nothing more and just wait for the nitrates to go down on it's own. also what about the occasional water change of 15 to 20 percent?

 

[jda]

Changing water is good at 10-20% ever few weeks at first is a good place to start. Just find a gallonage that works for you with containers, etc... the actual number is not as important as doing it.

 

[Mr. Limpid]

I found this, is this what you did?
Use 100% pure ammonia.
Using a dropper, add 5 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water. If you don't get an ammonia reading with your test kit, add some more drops until you start to see an ammonia reading. Keep track of how many drops you've used so you can repeat this process daily. Continue to dose the tank with ammonia until you start to get nitrite readings with your test kit. Once you can detect nitrites you should only add 3 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water, or if you added more drops originally to get an ammonia reading cut the amount of drops used in half. Continue this process daily until you get nitrate readings with your test kit. Do a 30% water change and your tank is ready.
High nitrates means your tank is not done cycling. What is your ammonia reading? High Nitrates take much longer because of the bacteria lives in 0 oxygen. There many ways to control nitrates, research and choose which one is best for you. If you are doing fish only high nitrates short term is ok.

 

[sergifed91]

I found this, is this what you did?
Use 100% pure ammonia.
Using a dropper, add 5 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water. If you don't get an ammonia reading with your test kit, add some more drops until you start to see an ammonia reading. Keep track of how many drops you've used so you can repeat this process daily. Continue to dose the tank with ammonia until you start to get nitrite readings with your test kit. Once you can detect nitrites you should only add 3 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons of aquarium water, or if you added more drops originally to get an ammonia reading cut the amount of drops used in half. Continue this process daily until you get nitrate readings with your test kit. Do a 30% water change and your tank is ready.
High nitrates means your tank is not done cycling. What is your ammonia reading? High Nitrates take much longer because of the bacteria lives in 0 oxygen. There many ways to control nitrates, research and choose which one is best for you. If you are doing fish only high nitrates short term is ok.

Yes that is what I did.

 

[sergifed91]

Changing water is good at 10-20% ever few weeks at first is a good place to start. Just find a gallonage that works for you with containers, etc... the actual number is not as important as doing it.

I plan on doing 20 %. a whopping 12 g.

 

[Mr. Limpid]

You should not do a water change until your nitrites hit zero.

 

[clover128]

You should not do a water change until your nitrites hit zero.

I second that. I wouldn't add any fish either until nitrites=0. You've already added the ammonia that feeds the bacteria "chain". Give it some time to populate and reduce the nitrites. You want your tank to reach a stable place in terms of bacteria consuming the ammonia/nitrite waste. A water change would only serve to change the nitrite level which would reduce the food available to the bacteria. My 2c

 

[Jesterrace]

4 weeks into cycle and been adding pure ammonia. I'm thinking my test kit is fubarred for the nitrate side. I just ordered a new one from Amazon. I'm staying away from API. Clearly the nitrate test is faulty. No way could it be that high. Even after a water change.I'm heading back to pcs tomorrow to get it retested.

Yup, API is notoriously unreliable for Nitrates. Go with Red Sea if you want most accurate or Salifert if you want a balance between accuracy and ease. Incidentally here is a vid that compares API to Red Sea:

 

[sergifed91]

Thank you everyone! I just got back from the LFS had the water tested again. NO2 1 ppm and NO3 40 PPM. no worries at this point. I was freaking out thinking I screwed up royally. but thank god I didn't. also I have a kit ordered from amazon ordered salifert. so it should be here early next week. hopefully.

 

[Mr. Limpid]

I have API and Salifert nitrate test kits and API is a little harder to read then Salifert. The only reason I would get a better test kit if you plan on keeping coral. If fish only the API will work fine. Just my two cents.