High Nitrates

[Icedog]

I just set up my first saltwater tank in 12/18, waited until it cycled a bit and then started adding some fish, snails and shrimp in 2-3/19. I also purchased an API chemistry test kit in 3/19 and started testing the water on a regular basis. For the first few months the water chemistry seemed to be fine: pH was about 8.0 and no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates. And then in 6-7/19, the nitrates started going up to 20-40 ppm and have stayed at 40 ppm ever since (with the pH being 8.0 and the ammonia and nitrites at zero).

I've taken a sample of my aquarium water to two of my LFS's immediately after my testing, to compare my results with theirs - the LFS nitrate result alway come out at about 20 ppm, whereas I'm reading it at about 40 ppm. Not a big discrepancy, but I'd like to start adding corals and understand that nitrates need to be much lower than even 20 ppm to do this!

And over the few months now I've noticed some type of red algae(?) growing on the live rock, and it seems to be spreading. Plus, four out of the five turbo snails I had have died recently - not sure if this is related to the nitrate issue or not???

I generally do a 10% water change every two weeks, and on the weeks in-between change out the filter sock and clean the protein skimmer. I tried doing these tasks more frequently - a few days apart rather than a week apart - but it doesn't seem to affect the nitrate levels.

My questions are as follows:

1. How can I lower the nitrate levels? (I hate to add some sort of nitrate-reducing compound - would rather find the source of the problem and eliminate it.)

2. What is this red algae growing on my rock and how can I eliminate it?

3. Is this problem with nitrates causing my snails to die?

Tks so much for any help you can give me!

 

[ihavecrabs]

Hey Icedog,

To provide a little perspective, my nitrates are around 20-30ppm and I have an SPS dominate tank. I wouldn’t worry too much about 20ppm (I don’t typically trust the API readings). What’s more of a problem is if phosphate is undetectable IMO.

If you want to get it down, there are multiple products that claim to do it. I’ve had the best luck with a bacteria-in-a-bottle like DrTims and a carbon source such as ATI Carbon.

 

[Barnabie Mejia]

+1 on the bacteria in the bottle, I have been using Seachem stability, its been working and I like it. Phosguard, Purigen, chemipure elite, and the like should help. I would venture to say that your bioload doesn't match your bacteria present in the tank.
The red stuff might be coraline algae, but would have to be confirmed with a picture..... if it is coraline then that necessarily a bad thing.

can you give us a little more information like livestock (fish wise), how much rock, filtration in use?
maybe a tank picture would help too...

~ Barnabie

 

[Icedog]

Hey Icedog,

To provide a little perspective, my nitrates are around 20-30ppm and I have an SPS dominate tank. I wouldn’t worry too much about 20ppm (I don’t typically trust the API readings). What’s more of a problem is if phosphate is undetectable IMO.

If you want to get it down, there are multiple products that claim to do it. I’ve had the best luck with a bacteria-in-a-bottle like DrTims and a carbon source such as ATI Carbon.

Oh, wow - that was a quick reply! And thanks for your perspective on this! I will certainly have my LFS check for the phosphate level. And thanks for the suggestion of the bacteria-in-a-bottle - it sounds like something natural and I'm definitely into that!

 

[Icedog]

+1 on the bacteria in the bottle, I have been using Seachem stability, its been working and I like it. Phosguard, Purigen, chemipure elite, and the like should help. I would venture to say that your bioload doesn't match your bacteria present in the tank.
The red stuff might be coraline algae, but would have to be confirmed with a picture..... if it is coraline then that necessarily a bad thing.

can you give us a little more information like livestock (fish wise), how much rock, filtration in use?
maybe a tank picture would help too...

~ Barnabie

 

[Icedog]

Tks for your suggestions! Just from the on-line research that I've done, I've kinda wondered the same thing - do I need more of a certain type of bacteria in my tank to make it function well? It's nighttime her now so I'll get you a pic tomorrow - would really like to know what this algae is!

 

[Barnabie Mejia]

keep us posted and if I can help with any information or advice, I will..... I love this forum cause I learn so much, and now I get to pass it on!

 

[blasterman]

Bacteria in a bottle to lower nitrate?

Uh....dont think so. That stuff is nitrobacter based and used to kick start cycling which you're past.

The red stuff. if it looks like cotton is cyanobacteria. It's fairly harmless itself but an indication of excessive nutrients.

Best way To reduce nitrate is to get a skimmer and cut feeding. If you're killing turbo snails I wouldn't be getting corals.

 

[BayouReefer]

I would clean filter socks more often after 4 days they become Nitrate producers. And you also said you are also cleaning skimmer every other week I hope you are having to empty the cup more often than that or your probably not skimming hard enough. What is the Bio load on the tank?

 

[Icedog]

I would clean filter socks more often after 4 days they become Nitrate producers. And you also said you are also cleaning skimmer every other week I hope you are having to empty the cup more often than that or your probably not skimming hard enough. What is the Bio load on the tank?

turbo s
Tks for that suggestion - didn't realize that the filter socks could contribute to the nitrate issue! (So sorry - I'm still a newbie!) Will start changing them more frequently immediately!

I assume by the bioload you need the fish stocking level? (Again, I'm a newbie . . . .) I currently have two clownfish, one coral beauty, one goby and one damselfish. Plus I have a CUC of two peppermint shrimp, one cleaner shrimp, one turbo snail and an emerald crab.

I also do have a skimmer and empty the cup about once every other week - doesn't seem to get very full more often than that. Am I doing something wrong here?

Again, thanks for all of your help!

 

[ihavecrabs]

Bacteria in a bottle to lower nitrate?

Uh....dont think so. That stuff is nitrobacter based and used to kick start cycling which you're past.

The red stuff. if it looks like cotton is cyanobacteria. It's fairly harmless itself but an indication of excessive nutrients.

Best way To reduce nitrate is to get a skimmer and cut feeding. If you're killing turbo snails I wouldn't be getting corals.

I should have specified... there are many bacteria in a bottle products that reduce nitrate. Aboveboard is one example. Does require a skimmer though!

Look into Nitrifying bacteria vs Denitrifying bacteria processes.

 

[Icedog]

keep us posted and if I can help with any information or advice, I will..... I love this forum cause I learn so much, and now I get to pass it on!

+1 on the bacteria in the bottle, I have been using Seachem stability, its been working and I like it. Phosguard, Purigen, chemipure elite, and the like should help. I would venture to say that your bioload doesn't match your bacteria present in the tank.
The red stuff might be coraline algae, but would have to be confirmed with a picture..... if it is coraline then that necessarily a bad thing.

can you give us a little more information like livestock (fish wise), how much rock, filtration in use?
maybe a tank picture would help too...

~ Barnabie

Okay - got some pix. Hopefully you can see the red algae stuff on the rocks on the right and left sides.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Looks like it might be a little amount of cyano. My recommendation would be to keep an eye on Nitrates and Phosphates and correct them if they get too low. Otherwise, manual removal is best (airline tubing works well as long as it isn't in the sand).

 

[BeejReef]

You're doing well

To have a first tank running as long as you have and your only big issue is middle of the road nitrates and maybe a hint of cyano.. That's good work.

Also IMHO, you need some real deal test kits if you want to take it to the next level.

So many ways to control nitrates, but a lot depends on an accurate phosphate reading. I tend to think a refugium would go very well with your "hands out of the tank" approach, but no way to tell without a full set of parameters.

 

[Barnabie Mejia]

what do you have for flow in the tank in terms of powerheads? I know in my 29g I was having an issue with nitrates, and I was using low flow. when I increased the flow rates in the tank, it seemed to help a little moving the detritus around to get it out of the tank.... when you do water changes, are you vacuuming your sand bed as well?
once a month I set up my siphon to dump into a filter sock that I clamp to my sump and vacuum my sand bed like crazy to get all the junk out of it. its like doing a water change with out taking the water out, if that makes sense. A clean sand bed will make your life easier, look up some posts from @brandon429 he knows his stuff when it comes to clean sand beds and the overall benefits of it.
I know your tank is fairly new, but it good to have great habits. maintenance takes time, but the outcome is well worth it!

Personally I would increase the number on your CUC. a few more snails, some blue leg crabs, and emeralds. don't overload it, but an increase would help in the long run when trying to get your nitrates and phosphates in check....

Barnabie

 

[Icedog]

Looks like it might be a little amount of cyano. My recommendation would be to keep an eye on Nitrates and Phosphates and correct them if they get too low. Otherwise, manual removal is best (airline tubing works well as long as it isn't in the sand).

I'm a little confused . . . I need to correct the nitrates if they get too low??? I thought that them being high was a problem! Please clarify for me . . .

Haven't tested the phosphates yet but will do so soon.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I'm a little confused . . . I need to correct the nitrates if they get too low??? I thought that them being high was a problem! Please clarify for me . . .

Haven't tested the phosphates yet but will do so soon.

Yes! Too high is bad but same with too low.

Before you do anything to adjust the nitrates, I’d be interested in knowing your phosphate levels.

 

[Icedog]

what do you have for flow in the tank in terms of powerheads? I know in my 29g I was having an issue with nitrates, and I was using low flow. when I increased the flow rates in the tank, it seemed to help a little moving the detritus around to get it out of the tank.... when you do water changes, are you vacuuming your sand bed as well?
once a month I set up my siphon to dump into a filter sock that I clamp to my sump and vacuum my sand bed like crazy to get all the junk out of it. its like doing a water change with out taking the water out, if that makes sense. A clean sand bed will make your life easier, look up some posts from @brandon429 he knows his stuff when it comes to clean sand beds and the overall benefits of it.
I know your tank is fairly new, but it good to have great habits. maintenance takes time, but the outcome is well worth it!

Personally I would increase the number on your CUC. a few more snails, some blue leg crabs, and emeralds. don't overload it, but an increase would help in the long run when trying to get your nitrates and phosphates in check....

Barnabie

About a month ago I got a powerhead and have been playing with its positioning and flow ever since. Based on your recommendations, I have increased the flow quite a bit now - hopefully that will help!

Originally when I did a water change I had trouble vacuuming out the sandbed without taking a lot of sand along with it. So I instead started using a turkey baster to stir up the sandbed, then immediately did a water change, syphoning out as much of the suspended detritus as I could, without taking out the sand. (Found this suggestion somewhere on the internet!)

I love your idea of dumping the sand from the syphoning into a filter sock! But, I had heard that it wasn't a good idea to clean up the sandbed too much - it provides a lot of good bacteria and food for the livestock. What do you think?

Last question - I get the impression from some of the posts here that others feel that I am not doing enough maintenance. I've adopted advice from my lfs's suggestions and have been told not to "do too much at once" because it can change the bacterial equilibrium needed to make this tank successful. Do I need to change my schedule of maintenance?

 

[Icedog]

Yes! Too high is bad but same with too low.

Before you do anything to adjust the nitrates, I’d be interested in knowing your phosphate levels.

Understood - will get that for you soon!

 

[Barnabie Mejia]

About a month ago I got a powerhead and have been playing with its positioning and flow ever since. Based on your recommendations, I have increased the flow quite a bit now - hopefully that will help!

Originally when I did a water change I had trouble vacuuming out the sandbed without taking a lot of sand along with it. So I instead started using a turkey baster to stir up the sandbed, then immediately did a water change, syphoning out as much of the suspended detritus as I could, without taking out the sand. (Found this suggestion somewhere on the internet!)

I love your idea of dumping the sand from the syphoning into a filter sock! But, I had heard that it wasn't a good idea to clean up the sandbed too much - it provides a lot of good bacteria and food for the livestock. What do you think?

Last question - I get the impression from some of the posts here that others feel that I am not doing enough maintenance. I've adopted advice from my lfs's suggestions and have been told not to "do too much at once" because it can change the bacterial equilibrium needed to make this tank successful. Do I need to change my schedule of maintenance?

I don't vaccum the sand from the tank to the sock, I just let all the trash from the sand go to the sock.
when I vacuum my sand, I pinch the hose. so when I suck the sand up the tube, I'll pinch the hose to slow down the water flow out, and it allows the sand to drop back out of the tube, then I release the pinch of the tube and all the nasties get pulled out. so in reality I pull out extremely minimal amounts of sand from the sand bed. there is a ton of videos of vacuuming sandbeds on youtube that would probably better explain what I do, cause sometimes I have a hard time describing what i'm trying to say.

now I have heard of the "don't clean your sand too much cause of bacteria thing" but I don't believe in that. I allow my rock work and marine pure spheres house the bacteria. Stirring up the sand bed releases detritus into the water column and I feel, if the sand bed is older, you can cause an ammonia spike and possibly a mini cycle. keeping your sand be clean, prevents that from happening. if you stir up your sand bed and it clouds your water, its not clean.