High Nitrites and Nitrates 3 months into new tank

[certain_code]

Here is a quick rundown of my situation. I am 3 months into a new tank cycle but still reading 4+ ppm Nitrites and off-the-chart Nitrates as well. My research here has led me to a few similar discussions but I want to make sure my specific situation is similar and that I am approaching things correctly.

The tank has been set up for 3 months now, bare bottom with dry rock that was cycling for 2 months in a container. The total cycle time was 5 months in all and I am also running PolypLabs Genisis bricks to add to the filtration. The cycle was completed with XLM and dosed ammonia per instructions. The expected Ammonia drop and Nitrites spike occurred followed by the Nitrate spike; cycle complete, or so I thought. I also verified by dosing 2ppm of Ammonia which was processed to 0 in 48 hours.

Currently, I am reading 4+ ppm of Nitrite, and Nitrates are reading super high, given Nitrites likely affect those test results. I have stopped testing Nitrates following the advice here that Nitrites are not making it possible to get an accurate reading anyway.

Originally, I was reading 1-2 Nitrites per my Salifert tests. Since Nitrites are known to be non-toxic at lower levels to Marine fish, I stopped testing them, declared the cycle complete, and went out to buy my first 3 fish. After adding 2 clowns and a Tang, I closely monitored for any Ammonia increase and saw none. I then had to deal with what I assume was a bacterial infection in the tank of all of my fish. I made sure to treat only with products claiming to not degrade the tank's biofilter. After treating with Metroplex, Kanaplex, and Paraguard throughout a 3 week period, the fish are doing great and have almost fully recovered. I had then ran Carbon to remove as much of the medication as possible and have since done 2 80% water changes over 2 weeks time. I am also running an auto water change system that changes 15% of the water over a week's time.

What I am currently confused by is that I cannot seem to lower my Nitrites and thus Nitrates even after large water changes and nearly 3 months. Even assuming that the medication negatively affected the biofilter, this seems to be taking a really long time and I am concerned about some long-term health issues with the fish since I am not sure how high above 4ppm Nitrites really are at this point. I did watch the one presentation on 'stalling' a cycle with very elevated Nitrites levels be it also seem to be fairly impossible to do based on the general feedback within R2R.

So my question now is, is this just taking longer because I am going with a bare bottom tank and things just need to play out? Is there something I can do to increase the biofilter and drop Nitrites? The tank is currently going through an 'ugly phase' from the natural sunlight it gets in the morning with some algae that my CUC and Tang have been going to town on. Am I missing something here or is this the classic situation of just staying patient even after around 5 months of a cycle?

 

[Idech]

Have you tested nitrates and nitrites with a different test kit, or tested rodi water to see if the results are 0 or close ?

With everything I read, it seems to me that testing is the issue. Or maybe bring a water sample at your LFS ?

 

[Coralsdaily]

First thing first- what’s your water source? And do you use RO? Have you tested the water before you even mix salt and add to tank?

 

[Dbichler]

With high nitrites you won’t get an accurate nitrate reading anyways. I would do as large of a water change as you can do yes 100% if possible and you should be good

 

[Coralsdaily]

With high nitrites you won’t get an accurate nitrate reading anyways. I would do as large of a water change as you can do yes 100% if possible and you should be good

Agree with larger water change, but again make sure the nitrite isn’t already present in your “fresh” water before you even add it to tank.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Here is a quick rundown of my situation. I am 3 months into a new tank cycle but still reading 4+ ppm Nitrites and off-the-chart Nitrates as well. My research here has led me to a few similar discussions but I want to make sure my specific situation is similar and that I am approaching things correctly.

The tank has been set up for 3 months now, bare bottom with dry rock that was cycling for 2 months in a container. The total cycle time was 5 months in all and I am also running PolypLabs Genisis bricks to add to the filtration. The cycle was completed with XLM and dosed ammonia per instructions. The expected Ammonia drop and Nitrites spike occurred followed by the Nitrate spike; cycle complete, or so I thought. I also verified by dosing 2ppm of Ammonia which was processed to 0 in 48 hours.

Currently, I am reading 4+ ppm of Nitrite, and Nitrates are reading super high, given Nitrites likely affect those test results. I have stopped testing Nitrates following the advice here that Nitrites are not making it possible to get an accurate reading anyway.

Originally, I was reading 1-2 Nitrites per my Salifert tests. Since Nitrites are known to be non-toxic at lower levels to Marine fish, I stopped testing them, declared the cycle complete, and went out to buy my first 3 fish. After adding 2 clowns and a Tang, I closely monitored for any Ammonia increase and saw none. I then had to deal with what I assume was a bacterial infection in the tank of all of my fish. I made sure to treat only with products claiming to not degrade the tank's biofilter. After treating with Metroplex, Kanaplex, and Paraguard throughout a 3 week period, the fish are doing great and have almost fully recovered. I had then ran Carbon to remove as much of the medication as possible and have since done 2 80% water changes over 2 weeks time. I am also running an auto water change system that changes 15% of the water over a week's time.

What I am currently confused by is that I cannot seem to lower my Nitrites and thus Nitrates even after large water changes and nearly 3 months. Even assuming that the medication negatively affected the biofilter, this seems to be taking a really long time and I am concerned about some long-term health issues with the fish since I am not sure how high above 4ppm Nitrites really are at this point. I did watch the one presentation on 'stalling' a cycle with very elevated Nitrites levels be it also seem to be fairly impossible to do based on the general feedback within R2R.

So my question now is, is this just taking longer because I am going with a bare bottom tank and things just need to play out? Is there something I can do to increase the biofilter and drop Nitrites? The tank is currently going through an 'ugly phase' from the natural sunlight it gets in the morning with some algae that my CUC and Tang have been going to town on. Am I missing something here or is this the classic situation of just staying patient even after around 5 months of a cycle?

Ignore the Nitrite test, it's obviously wrong.

Do a big water change to lower Nitrate. High enough nitrates will stress fish and cause illness.
I assume with a bare bottom tank you are running high density bio media in the sump or filter.

Try to get nitrate under 50.

 

[Dbichler]

Correct with rodi tds of 0 is always best.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ignore the Nitrite test, it's obviously wrong.

Do a big water change to lower Nitrate. High enough nitrates will stress fish and cause illness.
I assume with a bare bottom tank you are running high density bio media in the sump or filter.

Try to get nitrate under 50.

How do you know is must be wrong?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Here is a quick rundown of my situation. I am 3 months into a new tank cycle but still reading 4+ ppm Nitrites and off-the-chart Nitrates as well. My research here has led me to a few similar discussions but I want to make sure my specific situation is similar and that I am approaching things correctly.

The tank has been set up for 3 months now, bare bottom with dry rock that was cycling for 2 months in a container. The total cycle time was 5 months in all and I am also running PolypLabs Genisis bricks to add to the filtration. The cycle was completed with XLM and dosed ammonia per instructions. The expected Ammonia drop and Nitrites spike occurred followed by the Nitrate spike; cycle complete, or so I thought. I also verified by dosing 2ppm of Ammonia which was processed to 0 in 48 hours.

Currently, I am reading 4+ ppm of Nitrite, and Nitrates are reading super high, given Nitrites likely affect those test results. I have stopped testing Nitrates following the advice here that Nitrites are not making it possible to get an accurate reading anyway.

Originally, I was reading 1-2 Nitrites per my Salifert tests. Since Nitrites are known to be non-toxic at lower levels to Marine fish, I stopped testing them, declared the cycle complete, and went out to buy my first 3 fish. After adding 2 clowns and a Tang, I closely monitored for any Ammonia increase and saw none. I then had to deal with what I assume was a bacterial infection in the tank of all of my fish. I made sure to treat only with products claiming to not degrade the tank's biofilter. After treating with Metroplex, Kanaplex, and Paraguard throughout a 3 week period, the fish are doing great and have almost fully recovered. I had then ran Carbon to remove as much of the medication as possible and have since done 2 80% water changes over 2 weeks time. I am also running an auto water change system that changes 15% of the water over a week's time.

What I am currently confused by is that I cannot seem to lower my Nitrites and thus Nitrates even after large water changes and nearly 3 months. Even assuming that the medication negatively affected the biofilter, this seems to be taking a really long time and I am concerned about some long-term health issues with the fish since I am not sure how high above 4ppm Nitrites really are at this point. I did watch the one presentation on 'stalling' a cycle with very elevated Nitrites levels be it also seem to be fairly impossible to do based on the general feedback within R2R.

So my question now is, is this just taking longer because I am going with a bare bottom tank and things just need to play out? Is there something I can do to increase the biofilter and drop Nitrites? The tank is currently going through an 'ugly phase' from the natural sunlight it gets in the morning with some algae that my CUC and Tang have been going to town on. Am I missing something here or is this the classic situation of just staying patient even after around 5 months of a cycle?

Have you tried the nitrite kit on some new salt water to see if it is working correctly?

 

[certain_code]

Have you tested nitrates and nitrites with a different test kit, or tested rodi water to see if the results are 0 or close ?

With everything I read, it seems to me that testing is the issue. Or maybe bring a water sample at your LFS ?

Nitrites I only have the Salifert but have now tested with two different kits to confirm accuracy. I have not tested my RO/DI for Nitrites but given I have tested 0 at some point in this whole process over the last few months, I do not think my RO water is the source of the problem. I will reconfirm shortly.

First thing first- what’s your water source? And do you use RO? Have you tested the water before you even mix salt and add to tank?

The water source is through a BRS RO/DI 3 stage with all new filters are properly flushed and read 0 TDS out. I also dose Seachem Prime to ensure no chlorine or chloramines are at play here. I tested for Nitrates in my fresh RO water and it read very low per the Salifert kit but I will reconfirm shortly with my new Hanna checker.

With high nitrites you won’t get an accurate nitrate reading anyways. I would do as large of a water change as you can do yes 100% if possible and you should be good

Yup, I read and expect that. The only reason I am even testing Nitrites is to ensure I am getting accurate readings of Nitrates. Given I am reading 4+ ppm of Nitrites, I am not currently testing for Nitrates until Nitrites lower.

Agree with larger water change, but again make sure the nitrite isn’t already present in your “fresh” water before you even add it to tank.

What is odd is that I did 2 80% water changes that did not seem to have any impact. I need to retest my source water to confirm but a test of Nitrites and Nitrates about a month ago read near 0.

Ignore the Nitrite test, it's obviously wrong.

Do a big water change to lower Nitrate. High enough nitrates will stress fish and cause illness.
I assume with a bare bottom tank you are running high density bio media in the sump or filter.

Try to get nitrate under 50.

How is the Nitrite test obviously wrong? Nitrates right now are at 52ppm via the Hanna HR checker but that is definitely wrong considering I have elevated Nitrites. If I assume that Nitrites are causing Nitrate to test higher, than my Nitrates should technically be below 50ppm. But maybe I am misunderstanding the relationship there. I do not currently test Nitrates since I am reading very high Nitrites and that is showing me incorrect readings.

Correct with rodi tds of 0 is always best.

RO/DI is going through BRS 3 stage with new filters and reading 0 TDS out of the unit.

 

[certain_code]

Have you tried the nitrite kit on some new salt water to see if it is working correctly?

I just tested my Nitrite Salifert kit on Tropic Marin (Made in Germany) Reef Pro salt (mixed for 24 hours, sitting for nearly a week now) and the Nitrite reading is 0.1ppm so I do not think the kit has any issues.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I just tested my Nitrite Salifert kit on Tropic Marin (Made in Germany) Reef Pro salt (mixed for 24 hours, sitting for nearly a week now) and the Nitrite reading is 0.1ppm so I do not think the kit has any issues.

OK, probably not. Some folks do find getting nitrite to decline can take a long time.

Are there adequate nutrients in the water from feeding something? Jay Hemdal mentioned a specific need for done phosphate, and mentioned adding some Coke, I think.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Here’s where he mentioned using cola:

Product for reducing nitrite?

I know there is lots of conflicting information as to whether or not nitrite has an adverse effect on fish livelihood. I am currently cycling a Waterbox 50.3 after about 18 days my ammonia read 0 on my Red Sea test but still registering high nitrites. (Nitrate around 25/30) I dosed 2 250 ml...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Rmckoy]

The old school way was to test through each stage .
starting with ammonia .
you will notice ammonia spike , as it declines a noticeable increase in nitrites .
same with nitrites to nitrates .
When nitrates are high and nitrites are zero it was time to perform a large water change and start slowly stocking livestock .

 

[gbroadbridge]

How do you know is must be wrong?

I honestly don't, but even if it is correct I don't believe 4 ppm is going to cause any problems.

It may just be taking a long time for that portion of the cycle to catch up, which would explain the continuing rise of Nitrate.

I expect quite a lot of ammonia was probably introduced at the start to cycle the tank.

 

[Idech]

Is there a possibility there is a big decomposing fish somewhere in the tank ? They can be stuck is very odd places sometimes and really hard to find.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I honestly don't, but even if it is correct I don't believe 4 ppm is going to cause any problems.

I don’t disagree with that.

 

[certain_code]

Here’s where he mentioned using cola:

Product for reducing nitrite?

I know there is lots of conflicting information as to whether or not nitrite has an adverse effect on fish livelihood. I am currently cycling a Waterbox 50.3 after about 18 days my ammonia read 0 on my Red Sea test but still registering high nitrites. (Nitrate around 25/30) I dosed 2 250 ml...

www.reef2reef.com

This seems crazy to me but I will read through it. Main concern is health of the livestock obviously at this point by doing this but I will take a look.

I honestly don't, but even if it is correct I don't believe 4 ppm is going to cause any problems.

It may just be taking a long time for that portion of the cycle to catch up, which would explain the continuing rise of Nitrate.

I expect quite a lot of ammonia was probably introduced at the start to cycle the tank.

4ppm is the max the Salifert kit reads. Concern here being that it's actually something like 10ppm and could become a huge issue if it's increasing but not known since the test kit wont read any higher.

Is there a possibility there is a big decomposing fish somewhere in the tank ? They can be stuck is very odd places sometimes and really hard to find.

Nope, just have 2 fish and a CUC. Fish are doing well, eating and swimming with no signs of stress post some treatment for a bacterial infection and multiple water changes.

I don’t disagree with that.

Same. The concern being if it's actually higher than 4ppm and that's just the max the Salifert kit will read.

 

[gbroadbridge]

4ppm is the max the Salifert kit reads. Concern here being that it's actually something like 10ppm and could become a huge issue if it's increasing but not known since the test kit wont read any higher.

Dilution.

Mix one part your tank water with 3 parts fresh mix salt water and run the test.

Multiply the result by 4

Or 1 part tank water + 9 parts fresh saltwater and multiply by 10.

 

[certain_code]

Dilution.

Mix one part your tank water with 3 parts fresh mix salt water and run the test.

Multiply the result by 4

Or 1 part tank water + 9 parts fresh saltwater and multiply by 10.

Ha. I didn't even think of this.

I just mixed 1 part (6ml) of tank water with 3 parts (18ml) of fully mixed saltwater. Salifert test kit reported Nitrites at 2ppm so the best guess is Nitrites are around 8ppm currently.


Ultimately it looks like either the dose of Prime is throwing off Nitrite levels (although my fresh saltwater is reading near 0 currently and has a diluted amount of Prime as well) or something else is going on. I am going to do a 80% water change and measure again but follow up with a much larger 90%+ water change this weekend if I do not see a decrease.