High nutrient reefers question

[TLO45]

I have a larger display that has on and off issues with Dino’s and Cyano.
I replaced some dry Marco rock with Caribsea Arch rock about 8 months ago so in theory the system is 8 months old.
I initially had the Dino and Cyano issues resolved with running higher nutrients.
Now I currently run NO3 around 30-35 and PO4 around .20-.25.
It appears that if the phosphate dips to .20 or slightly below the Cyano reappears.
I know there are reefers who run higher nutrient levels but am curious if anyone has had similar issues?

 

[Reefahholic]

I have a larger display that has on and off issues with Dino’s and Cyano.
I replaced some dry Marco rock with Caribsea Arch rock about 8 months ago so in theory the system is 8 months old.
I initially had the Dino and Cyano issues resolved with running higher nutrients.
Now I currently run NO3 around 30-35 and PO4 around .20-.25.
It appears that if the phosphate dips to .20 or slightly below the Cyano reappears.
I know there are reefers who run higher nutrient levels but am curious if anyone has had similar issues?

You did good getting the Marco Rock out of there. That stuff is a Dino magnet. Some systems seem to prefer higher PO4 levels especially in the beginning when it’s not established yet. I’d keep it higher if you’re seeing Dino’s under 0.2 ppm. Did you get an ID on these? Sounds like Ostreopsis.?

 

[TLO45]

I never ID’d the Dino’s. However I do run uv 24/7 with an 80 watt Pentair unit of which I just replaced the bulb and cleaned the sleeve.
I’m not sure if uv does much in my case but I run it to give me peace of mind.
.2 phosphate seems to be the threshold and I’m debating raising that to see if I get benefits from it being higher.
I’ll include a picture of what I’m dealing with.
This is in a refugium tank that houses a mantis shrimp.

 

[apb03]

I run high on nutrients and I see similar results in my tank (6 months old). Everything seems to be fine when I'm around 20 nitrate and .2 phosphate, but when I lower the phos, the cyano gets a bit heavier and starts to form a cohesive cover over the sand. I just started dosing Elimni NP to see how things go at 10 nitrate and .1 phosphate.

I think it's just the ratio more than anything. Generally, though, I prefer running higher nutrient levels. I don't see much of a downside, to be honest. Algae is nonexistent in my tank due to the tangs, urchin, and chaeto, so I sort of leave it alone.

 

[SanFernandoValleyAIOReef]

I have a larger display that has on and off issues with Dino’s and Cyano.
I replaced some dry Marco rock with Caribsea Arch rock about 8 months ago so in theory the system is 8 months old.
I initially had the Dino and Cyano issues resolved with running higher nutrients.
Now I currently run NO3 around 30-35 and PO4 around .20-.25.
It appears that if the phosphate dips to .20 or slightly below the Cyano reappears.
I know there are reefers who run higher nutrient levels but am curious if anyone has had similar issues?

same , I’ve left my socks in for a month now trying to raise nitrates but it’s still like at 4-5

 

[TLO45]

I removed my socks months ago because I couldn’t my levels above zero.
Although I prefer a cleaner looking sump my display suffered so I removed them altogether. Seemed to improve thing’s dramatically.
My main question is what happens if I continue to ramp up phosphate? Will I continue to get a cleaner sandbed?
My nitrates are in the low 30 range and wonder if I raise PO4 to around .3 ( closer to redfield ratio) if things might improve?
I don’t want to rock the boat too much because over the last 8 months it’s been a roller coaster of issues.
I certainly don’t want to take backwards steps but I’m not happy where things are currently either.

 

[o2manyfish]

I've been running a confirmed High nutrient system for almost 10 years. I say confirmed because I never tested nutrients until I started ICP testing almost 10 years ago. And since starting that found my phos average aroun 1.6 - no the decimal point is in the correct place. For one year we ran at 2.4ish.

I didn't have any 'problematic' algae. WIth half my system volume outside getting blasted by sunlight - the sunlit tanks actually grew algae slower than the LED lit display tank. No Cyano issue.

In areas with light and not fish - like the outdoor frag tank overflows - there were patches of bryopsis and bubble algae - but there was and is none visible in the display tanks.

Dave B

 

[TLO45]

I've been running a confirmed High nutrient system for almost 10 years. I say confirmed because I never tested nutrients until I started ICP testing almost 10 years ago. And since starting that found my phos average aroun 1.6 - no the decimal point is in the correct place. For one year we ran at 2.4ish.

I didn't have any 'problematic' algae. WIth half my system volume outside getting blasted by sunlight - the sunlit tanks actually grew algae slower than the LED lit display tank. No Cyano issue.

In areas with light and not fish - like the outdoor frag tank overflows - there were patches of bryopsis and bubble algae - but there was and is none visible in the display tanks.

Dave B

So Dave I’m curious what your maintenance schedule is?
I’d like to do weekly water changes but when I do my nutrient levels drop below the .2 range for phosphate.
I’m sending an ICP sample in tomorrow to see if my tests match up with the ICP.
I just feel like I’m always riding the fine line of having Cyano and having a big plague break out.
I’ve never had Cyano issues in my 20+ years of reefing until I used dry rock.
Now it’s almost like I have to just have to look at it!!
Do you have a number that if it falls under nutrient wise that things go array?

 

[Reefahholic]

I’ve been running 0.3-0.4 trying to beat mine out. I can’t say I’ve seen much of an improvement at higher phosphate levels. After 0.3 I think it’s just excess. I see the most improvement from limiting or stopping organics like coral food, fish food, amino’s, vitamins, etc. UV helps in a lot of cases, but it’s not a silver bullet for every system. IMO, a Powerfilter + UV combined with limited organics will starve them out, sterilize them, and suck them up. For me It’s been the ultimate weapon of choice. Once you eliminate their fuel significantly, they will still stay strong for a while (weeks), but eventually they start fading out. Blowing the rocks off helps to break up their mats. They are stronger in numbers, but I wouldn’t blow the rocks daily unless they’re super bad and taking over the tank. We want to promote stability, and if we’re constantly messing with the tank it’s hard to achieve that, but you have to do it if their overrunning the system and getting all over corals.

 

[Reefahholic]

And since starting that found my phos average aroun 1.6 - no the decimal point is in the correct place. For one year we ran at 2.4ish.

So Dave you’re running a tight race with Richard Ross.

I’ve been talking a lot about higher phosphate levels and how it’s not as bad as people may think. I’m not talking crazy high, but higher than what most feel is acceptable. I don’t think a lot of reefers realize how low .03 actually is.

At what phosphate level did you start to notice browning on the way up?

 

[o2manyfish]

So Dave you’re running a tight race with Richard Ross.

I’ve been talking a lot about higher phosphate levels and how it’s not as bad as people may think. I’m not talking crazy high, but higher than what most feel is acceptable. I don’t think a lot of reefers realize how low .03 actually is.

At what phosphate level did you start to notice browning on the way up?

I don't have any issues with browning, but I do have some corals that are very brittle. I grow some outside in the sun and the par is outrageous. So I don't know if the sun is causing rapid growth or the phosphate levels are weakening the coral structure - which is rumored, but makes no sense.

Dave B

 

[TLO45]

So I have an update that has changed my dilemma.
Have a friendly reefer that gave me advice on test kits.
I switched from what I was using to another brand and came up with totally different results.
New tests showed low NO3 and high PO4. Complete reverse redfield ratio which I thought was in balance.
Instead of dosing phosphate I switched to dosing nitrate and will see what happens in the upcoming days.