High PH in Reef System

[nickeg79]

Hello,

I have a 90 Gallon and 80 Gallon deep blue rimless connected to a 100 gallon Rubbermaid tub as a sump. The sump has live rock and half of it is filled with a macro algae. It is not Chaeto it looks more like sea grass. Its not Hair algae. I got it at the LFS years ago.

I have a reef octopus skimmer Regal 300SSS 12 . The skimmer is oversized for what I have but I have always bought a bigger skimmer for my systems. I run Radions on both tanks and the sump. The sump is reverse photosynthesis to the tank.

All of this is setup in my basement. I have a dehumidifier about 3 feet away from the tank.

I am measuring my PH with an Apex and I have switched out the probe. I do not dose 2 part or anything in the system. I just was doing water changes. My calcium was a little low and I stared to dose calcium and alk. I have recently installed the apex in the last month. I had one sps that bleached out on the bottom so I figured it was low PH. The first and second PH meter both have showed that my ph is going over 8.5 and closer to 8.6. Both of them calibrated fine and are accurate if you leave them in the calibration solution.

I have no loss in lps or softies. A majority of my sps bleached out. They didn't bleach from the tips it was from the bottom. I have had no fish loss. I don't have an abundance of nuisance algae. To me the tank looks pretty clean. I wouldn't say that the corals are like starving or there isn't enough nutrients. I feed once a day PE Mysis or LRS. There is a small amount of algae on the front of the glass on both tanks.

My current levels are
Temp 79
Salinity 1.024
Magnesium 1400
Calcium 400
alk 10.5

I don't think the probes are wrong. There is something wrong somewhere. The thing is when My calcium was lower the corals were thriving. I was at about 250 and dosing calcium and I never checked the alkalinity. I just dosed them together. Once I started doing that the corals started bleaching very slowly. I had a small piece of forest fire digi bleach on the bottom and it lived like that for about 3 weeks and then it died off. I had probably 25 frags/colonies bleach out.

I haven't dosed in a month. I have changed out over 100 gallons of water. I am Using Aquaforest reef salt. I started changing 15 gallons of water a day for 4 days in a row last week and the Ph was lower. At First I was using the PH probe supplied with the Apex. I didn't think it was working correctly so I got another one from the LFS. This second probe seems to be better with the readings. The PH was normal for 2 days (8.2-8.3). Today the PH was at 8.3 before the daylight cycle and now it is reading 8.43 and rising. The end of the light cycle is at 7 Pm so I have 3 hours for it to raise itself. The skimmer was off yesterday because it had something caught in the intake and I was rushing to work and just shut it off. I turned it back on today. Along with emptying out the dehumidifier. I empty the dehumidifier every morning. I top off with Ro about 3 gallons a day. I don't run any kalk, or calcium reactor or carbon or gfo. I had a small algea bloom in early spring and I had gfo and carbon in filter socks at the end of my return. Once the algae was under control I stopped and pulled it out. I have not used it for months.

The PH probes is in an apex probe holder with the salinity, orp and temperature probe. The temp and salinity probe are pretty accurate. I tested with my other refractometer and thermometer.

Has anyone seen this with the use of a dehumidifier ? I was also wondering if the skimmer and the algae could cause a lack of C02 and the Ph is soaring. If I shut off the dehumidifier for a day there doesn't seem to be much different. Also if I shut the light off in the refuguim area that doesn't seem to make a big difference either. There might be a small difference with the skimmer but not like a jump from 8.2 to 8.5 in a day.

I have had low Ph problems in the spring but never one with the PH being to high. I will say that there could have been low and high swings in the PH due to me adding Vinegar about a month ago when the Ph was really high. I got the Ph back down from 8.5 to 8.2 in about 4 hours. I know that isn't the best. I haven't added anything else hoping things would balance out.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. Anybody have any ideas ? Any help would really be appreciated.



Thanks,
Nick

 

[Martin Kuhn]

Hello Nick

I don't think your problem is ph related.

How high are your nitrate and phosphate levels and with which test kits do you measure them?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

pH up to about 8.6 at least doesn't hurt reef organisms that I've ever seen.

That said, I suspect the measurement is in error since pH rarely gets that high without limewater/kalkwasser.

 

[nickeg79]

That is a good idea Martin. Once the little one hits the sheets I will do a test. I haven't tested that for months

 

[nickeg79]

pH up to about 8.6 at least doesn't hurt reef organisms that I've ever seen.

That said, I suspect the measurement is in error since pH rarely gets that high without limewater/kalkwasser.

That's what I thought. I shut off the skimmer at 5pm and the ph stopped rising. The probes aren't near the skimmer they are on the back wall of the 90 gallon away from the return and above the flow from a mp40

 

[nickeg79]

pH up to about 8.6 at least doesn't hurt reef organisms that I've ever seen.

That said, I suspect the measurement is in error since pH rarely gets that high without limewater/kalkwasser.

No3 .50
Po4 .02
Using Red Sea algae control

Should I run Gfo and carbon ? Or just Gfo ?

 

[Martin Kuhn]

No3 .50
Po4 .02
Using Red Sea algae control

Should I run Gfo and carbon ? Or just Gfo ?

This values sound perfect. Why should you investigate in even more lowering them ?

My next recommendation would go in another direction: "Ensuring that what you measure is correct" by using/testing so called reference solutions.
Have a look at chapter 1.5 in my water-parameter FAQ http://mathgame.de/Aqua/WaterParameter_FAQ_eng.pdf
also Chapters 1.11 and 1.12 could give you further relevant information

 

[nickeg79]

Martin, Randy

Thanks for your help. The issue seemed to be varying ph. I have put soda lime pellets on the intake of my skimmer. I have the skimmer on my apex and it only comes on when the ph hits 8.2 8 and shuts off at 8.36.

The colors have come back to my remaining sps and all of my zoas are open constantly.

I appreciate you responding to my questions. Thank You

 

[jessezm]

Hi there, sorry to revive this old thread, but I'm having very similar pH issues and wondering if you can explain how you got from having high pH where turning off the skimmer didn't make a huge difference, to having the skimmer on a controller and adding soda lime pellets to the air intake? Can you help me understand how the soda lime would lower, rather than raise your pH? I feel like I missed something here! thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi there, sorry to revive this old thread, but I'm having very similar pH issues and wondering if you can explain how you got from having high pH where turning off the skimmer didn't make a huge difference, to having the skimmer on a controller and adding soda lime pellets to the air intake? Can you help me understand how the soda lime would lower, rather than raise your pH? I feel like I missed something here! thanks

What does your pH appear to be? pH too high is usually test error if you are not using very high pH alkalinity additives.

 

[nickeg79]

I was dosing trace elements and I believe that was the issue. I tried to just dose trace elements and alk and calcium and stop doing water changes. Some people have success with it. I think it works but it takes a while for the tank to stabilize. BRS did a series on it and had some of the same problems I had and after a couple of months things stabilized.

Last month I was cleaning up my fish room and dosed them again there was a ph spike upwards from it almost immediately.

Now I just do water changes and dose alk and calcium daily and things are pretty stable.

The soda lime pellets were purchased because I stopped dosing the trace elementsand the ph dropped to 7.8. The swings killed a lot of sps.

I had tons and tons of corals so the calcium and alk were being depleted and I was not used to that. I went bare bottom and had previously had lots of rock and a sandbed. I believe those things are a good way to keep more stability.

So in my opinion I think those were the issues. Hope that helps.

 

[jessezm]

Via a twice calibrated probe, it is currently at 8.58, and has been climbing as high as 8.61. All this morning was 11.2, falling from 11.5 yesterday. I had a kalk overdose 6 days ago and have been managing levels since then with a series of water changes, once with buffered water using muriatic acid. pH always seems to creep back up, even over night. I have a new ph probe on order to be sure. I had also recently added a calcium reactor and was using korallin’s directions which call for a very low internal ph, but took that back offline Saturday

What does your pH appear to be? pH too high is usually test error if you are not using very high pH alkalinity additives.

 

[jessezm]

Ah that makes sense thank you. I also have no sand, and was wondering if that was part of the equation

I was dosing trace elements and I believe that was the issue. I tried to just dose trace elements and alk and calcium and stop doing water changes. Some people have success with it. I think it works but it takes a while for the tank to stabilize. BRS did a series on it and had some of the same problems I had and after a couple of months things stabilized.

Last month I was cleaning up my fish room and dosed them again there was a ph spike upwards from it almost immediately.

Now I just do water changes and dose alk and calcium daily and things are pretty stable.

The soda lime pellets were purchased because I stopped dosing the trace elementsand the ph dropped to 7.8. The swings killed a lot of sps.

I had tons and tons of corals so the calcium and alk were being depleted and I was not used to that. I went bare bottom and had previously had lots of rock and a sandbed. I believe those things are a good way to keep more stability.

So in my opinion I think those were the issues. Hope that helps.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Via a twice calibrated probe, it is currently at 8.58, and has been climbing as high as 8.61. All this morning was 11.2, falling from 11.5 yesterday. I had a kalk overdose 6 days ago and have been managing levels since then with a series of water changes, once with buffered water using muriatic acid. pH always seems to creep back up, even over night. I have a new ph probe on order to be sure. I had also recently added a calcium reactor and was using korallin’s directions which call for a very low internal ph, but took that back offline Saturday

If aeration is not high, limewater (kalkwasser) can drive pH pretty high. The best solutions for you would be more aeration, or switching partly or completely to a lower pH alkalinity additive. Baking soda is the lowest, and sodium carbonate is about halfway between baking soda and limewater.

 

[jessezm]

There’s a good bit of aeration in the tank via the oversized skimmer and a lot of water movement. I did have an air stone in the refugium but I talked myself out of it thinking it would actually raise, not lower pH... should I turn it back on?

I have stopped adding kalk to my ATO and currently plan to manage demands with a 10 gal weekly WC until the tank stabilizes and I take on more corals.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There’s a good bit of aeration in the tank via the oversized skimmer and a lot of water movement. I did have an air stone in the refugium but I talked myself out of it thinking it would actually raise, not lower pH... should I turn it back on?

I have stopped adding kalk to my ATO and currently plan to manage demands with a 10 gal weekly WC until the tank stabilizes and I take on more corals.

If the water was fully aerated, there would be no pH swing day to night (although it may drop when you or other CO2 sources are in the room vs not in it).

Depending on the alk and pH, aeration will raise, lower, or leave the pH unchanged. There's no reefer scenario where the pH will be "too high" at an alk of 11 dKH or less, if the water is fully aerated with anything except air scrubbed of CO2. .

 

[jessezm]

I'll give it a shot!

 

[Empress]

Go PATS!! [emoji6]

 

[nickeg79]

Well, more than a year later this problem has been solved. Just thought I’d close this out and say thanks to everyone on this forum one more time. Very helpful.

 

[Hitman]

What was the final decision on the cause?