high PO4 cause RTN ?

[Charles Silva]

Hello everyone

I've been experiencing RTN and after an ICP test only P and PO4 are out of range.

I found this article and the authors tested 2x more my PO4 concentration with no negative effect.

If my temperature, lighting, Alk= 8 , Ca= 425 , Mg= 1356 are stable what many have causing the RTN ?

 

[P-Dub]

The primary cause of RTN, seems to be bacterial/microbial infestations/infections. I'll give you an example. I had RTN of one of my corals just a few days ago and neglected to realize another was touching the affected one and one more touching that one. Lost all there within 48 hours. None of the other corals in my tank were affected. This has happened before and my phosphate levels are all low, relatively speaking at 0.04... The only chance I have ever found to mitigate losses is to frag the coral well above the affected tissue taking care not to touch any affected tissue with your cutting tools. 100% of my RTN cases have been an apparent direct result of microbial infection/infestation.

 

[Duffer]

High phosphates I would expect browning of corals,but if your phosphates are swinging up and down that could cause rtn

 

[P-Dub]

... if your phosphates are swinging up and down that could cause rtn

I have not heard of that happening. Care to share where you found that info? Thanks!

 

[Duffer]

There have been recent articles and forum talks about it ..phos swings are becoming as important as alk swings...do some research on the subject...I believe I also read some on this forum

 

[P-Dub]

There have been recent articles and forum talks about it ..phos swings are becoming as important as alk swings...do some research on the subject...I believe I also read some on this forum

Still can't find anything that correlates swings in Phosphate levels to RTN, at least not that I am able to find. I know that high phosphate will inhibit calcification in corals but no direct evidence, even anecdotal, that swings in levels relate to RTN. Could you share some links to any articles?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

My po4 is much higher than the OPs and both po4 and alk are all over the place. No rtn

 

[P-Dub]

Still can't find anything that correlates swings in Phosphate levels to RTN, at least not that I am able to find. I know that high phosphate will inhibit calcification in corals but no direct evidence, even anecdotal, that swings in levels relate to RTN. Could you share some links to any articles?

@duffer Anxiously waiting for some links... Would like to read up on this.

 

[Duffer]

i know I read it,sorry if I’m causing you heartburn...what I read that phosphates if not stable just like alk by dropping too fast can cause the coral to stress which could lead to rtn

Top 10 Tips For Keeping a SPS Reef Tank - ReefBum​

I have been tending to reef tanks for over 20 years and in this article I provide my top 10 tips for keeping a successful reef tank dominated by SPS.

reefbum.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I do not believe high phosphate is causing RTN. This tank has phosphate over 1 ppm:

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

Rich’s 150 gallon display, on a 300 gallon system, is running a phosphate level of 1.24 ppm, a level at 24.8 times higher than the often recommended .05 ppm. Photo by Richard Ross.

 

[P-Dub]

i know I read it,sorry if I’m causing you heartburn...what I read that phosphates if not stable just like alk by dropping too fast can cause the coral to stress which could lead to rtn

Top 10 Tips For Keeping a SPS Reef Tank - ReefBum​

I have been tending to reef tanks for over 20 years and in this article I provide my top 10 tips for keeping a successful reef tank dominated by SPS.

reefbum.com

@duffer lemonade can give me heartburn but wanting to know information, where it originated from, and how it is disseminated, does not. I certainly appreciate the link that was provided but I was looking for information related to your assertion that phosphate swings are a cause of tissue necrosis. "but if your phosphates are swinging up and down that could cause rtn." That article just references stability, in all parameters, keeps SPS's happy.

" Stable phosphate is important as well, but perhaps most important for SPS is keeping alkalinity at a consistent level. Any swings with this parameter over a short period of time usually spells trouble. Stable parameters equals happy SPS."

It does not reference high or swings in this particular parameter as a cause of or contributor to RTN. In fact, it doesn't reference RTN or STN anywhere in that article. Naturally, we can surmise that fluctuations in parameters can cause coral stress. This associated stress can lead to corals being more susceptible to protozoan infestation and infection, which has been demonstrably ascertained to be the likely cause of tissue necrosis in SPS's.

Causes and Treatment of Coral RTN (Rapid Tissue Necrosis) and STN

Coral tissue necrosis (RTN and STN) and coral bleaching are caused by an infection due to microscopic parasites. Treatment and prevention is availible.

coralrtn.com

For example.

Particularly, swings in alkalinity being the single most likely contributing factor. I have no doubt that swings in phosphate can contribute to the stresses leading to susceptibility to tissue necrosis, but not a singular cause of it. So, your assertion was news to me and I was just hoping that you had some references to this assertion.
Happy reefing with participation in R2R is always appreciated.

 

[Duffer]

all good my friend, just shows i should not jump in at times...