High TDS after membrane need help

[Felipe Ramos]

Hey guys... I have a BRS 5 Stage Plus Ro/Di that I bough used.

Basicaly I changed all the filters, membrane and Di and followed exactly what I saw in some posts to use bleach, etc etc...

My tap water is 244 but my tds after membrane is 52... I dont know what to do... pressure is almost 60 psi and its new filters so I dont get it.

Please help if you can

 

[Ocelaris]

Did you seat the ro membrane properly? It really needs to be seated well. You probably have bypass.

 

[Felipe Ramos]

It is perfectly installed... i just double checked to make sure... any other thing could be?

 

[Forsaken77]

Hey guys... I have a BRS 5 Stage Plus Ro/Di that I bough used.

Basicaly I changed all the filters, membrane and Di and followed exactly what I saw in some posts to use bleach, etc etc...

My tap water is 244 but my tds after membrane is 52... I dont know what to do... pressure is almost 60 psi and its new filters so I dont get it.

Please help if you can

What are you testing tds with? If they are inline monitors, where are they in the setup?

Are you experienced in using rodi systems? I just want to ask because I don't know what needs to be explained.

Do you have a flow restrictor installed? Is it the type you can turn on and off?

Do you know if your city water uses chloramines or just chlorine in the water? Very important!

Are you using the dual membrane setup? If you are, try using just the one membrane and see what you get. I particularly don't like dual membrane setups. They're harder to troubleshoot and manage.

According to BRS, you're supposed to flush the new membrane for an hour before your first use.

Are you flushing before and after every use? Because when you make a decent amount of water in one shot, you will get VERY high tds creep afterwards that must be flushed out. You should use a bypass installed after the membrane, before the di resin, to flush properly without wasting di resin. Then you have the bypass and normal waste line converge back to one line to your drain. If you need to know the parts, I can link you to them. Flushing before normal use can take up to 10 minutes to get the creep out and back to normal

But I would suggest using 1 membrane right now, disconnect the di resin and run the system for 30 minutes with all water going down the drain WITHOUT the restrictor engaged (in flush mode). Make sure the membrane is seated securely, and not backwards. Then turn the restrictor back on and see what you get.

 

[mjlash22]

Hey guys... I have a BRS 5 Stage Plus Ro/Di that I bough used.

Basicaly I changed all the filters, membrane and Di and followed exactly what I saw in some posts to use bleach, etc etc...

My tap water is 244 but my tds after membrane is 52... I dont know what to do... pressure is almost 60 psi and its new filters so I dont get it.

Please help if you can

What is your TDS after DI stage? As mentioned above, any time you put in a new membrane or filter material, you need to run the system for about an hour to purge out all the impurities. You can also get TDS creep on initial start up so wait a few minutes before looking at the TDS results.

 

[Felipe Ramos]

Are you experienced in using rodi systems? I just want to ask because I don't know what needs to be explained.
Yes I am

Do you have a flow restrictor installed? Is it the type you can turn on and off?
I have the flush kit installed.

Do you know if your city water uses chloramines or just chlorine in the water? Very important!
I dont know =( I live in LA, Hollywood... Have no idea.

Are you using the dual membrane setup? If you are, try using just the one membrane and see what you get. I particularly don't like dual membrane setups. They're harder to troubleshoot and manage.
Nope... mine is only one membrane.

According to BRS, you're supposed to flush the new membrane for an hour before your first use.
Yes, I will try to flush and see what happens... Hope this works but I was trying for two days and still high.

Are you flushing before and after every use? Because when you make a decent amount of water in one shot, you will get VERY high tds creep afterwards that must be flushed out. You should use a bypass installed after the membrane, before the di resin, to flush properly without wasting di resin. Then you have the bypass and normal waste line converge back to one line to your drain. If you need to know the parts, I can link you to them. Flushing before normal use can take up to 10 minutes to get the creep out and back to normal
Didn't know that to be honest... I use to have Spectrapure and I never flushed before... Why this BRS needs to be flushed?

But I would suggest using 1 membrane right now, disconnect the di resin and run the system for 30 minutes with all water going down the drain WITHOUT the restrictor engaged (in flush mode). Make sure the membrane is seated securely, and not backwards. Then turn the restrictor back on and see what you get.
Will try this right now

Thanks a lot for your help

 

[Felipe Ramos]

I flushed it for more than one hour and still the same... 44 after membrane... im about to buy a spectrapure and give up... almost a week on this

 

[Forsaken77]

Are you experienced in using rodi systems? I just want to ask because I don't know what needs to be explained.
Yes I am

Do you have a flow restrictor installed? Is it the type you can turn on and off?
I have the flush kit installed.

Do you know if your city water uses chloramines or just chlorine in the water? Very important!
I dont know =( I live in LA, Hollywood... Have no idea.

Are you using the dual membrane setup? If you are, try using just the one membrane and see what you get. I particularly don't like dual membrane setups. They're harder to troubleshoot and manage.
Nope... mine is only one membrane.

According to BRS, you're supposed to flush the new membrane for an hour before your first use.
Yes, I will try to flush and see what happens... Hope this works but I was trying for two days and still high.

Are you flushing before and after every use? Because when you make a decent amount of water in one shot, you will get VERY high tds creep afterwards that must be flushed out. You should use a bypass installed after the membrane, before the di resin, to flush properly without wasting di resin. Then you have the bypass and normal waste line converge back to one line to your drain. If you need to know the parts, I can link you to them. Flushing before normal use can take up to 10 minutes to get the creep out and back to normal
Didn't know that to be honest... I use to have Spectrapure and I never flushed before... Why this BRS needs to be flushed?

But I would suggest using 1 membrane right now, disconnect the di resin and run the system for 30 minutes with all water going down the drain WITHOUT the restrictor engaged (in flush mode). Make sure the membrane is seated securely, and not backwards. Then turn the restrictor back on and see what you get.
Will try this right now

Thanks a lot for your help

A big problem is that you MUST find out if your city uses chlorine or chloromine. Because if you're using a regular carbon block, that will not get out chloramines and they will pass right through everything. You need a specific carbon block for chloramines.

BRS sells a Universal carbon block, but they even tested it and it doesn't last that long. They sell one called a Monster that's meant for chloramines, but is over $200. Check out this vid and it'll explain it a bit more... This is a 2-part series that will explain things well.

 

[Felipe Ramos]

Hey thanks all for helping....

I've tried to purchase this BRS Universal Carbon Block this morning, but I got my last 3 orders on BRS canceled and I called them to see what was happening.

They said because I have tried to pay with a Brazilian Card I'm not able to order from them anymore forever because I don't match their criteria system and they don't feel confortable to sell to me... I have a US Card as well but I always prefer using my Brazilian card but looks like they don't accept it.... Really unfair and frustrating... I'm gonna throw this RO/DI and everything from BRS I bought in the past on the trash and buy a new one.

Funny thing is: I had a 700 dollar order in January and everything was ok, but now, it's just a small order, so I think their system only works with big orders....

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

60 psi is more than enough. If I had to guess, I would say your membrane is done and needs to be replaced. There are three basic parts to a RO/DI system, and only one of them you can tell needs to be replaced by the TDS of your product water (the DI resin). The others have to be replaced on a schedule or as dictated by testing.

The prefilters and carbon blocks protect the membrane from large particles and chlorine/chloramines. Chlorine can actually ruin an RO membrane in pretty short order, and if your carbon blocks had not been changed in a while, it's possible chlorine or chloramine was getting through and destroyed your membrane. The prefilters should be replaced every 6 months or so, depending on your water quality. These filters should be replaced no matter what your final TDS is. Remember, the prefilters really only exist to protect the membrane.

The RO membrane is next and, if properly protected, only needs to be replaced every few years. This is where most of the work of the system is done. Most Dow membranes are rated to have a minimum rejection of 96%. So if your TDS is 244 and the membrane should be removing 96% of the solids, only 4% of that number or less should be present after your RO membrane. 244 * 0.04 = 9.76, or around 10. Since your TDS is higher than 10 after your membrane, it needs to be replaced.

The last stage, the DI resin, should be replaced any time your final TDS is above 0 ppm.

 

[Felipe Ramos]

60 psi is more than enough. If I had to guess, I would say your membrane is done and needs to be replaced. There are three basic parts to a RO/DI system, and only one of them you can tell needs to be replaced by the TDS of your product water (the DI resin). The others have to be replaced on a schedule or as dictated by testing.

The prefilters and carbon blocks protect the membrane from large particles and chlorine/chloramines. Chlorine can actually ruin an RO membrane in pretty short order, and if your carbon blocks had not been changed in a while, it's possible chlorine or chloramine was getting through and destroyed your membrane. The prefilters should be replaced every 6 months or so, depending on your water quality. These filters should be replaced no matter what your final TDS is. Remember, the prefilters really only exist to protect the membrane.

The RO membrane is next and, if properly protected, only needs to be replaced every few years. This is where most of the work of the system is done. Most Dow membranes are rated to have a minimum rejection of 96%. So if your TDS is 244 and the membrane should be removing 96% of the solids, only 4% of that number or less should be present after your RO membrane. 244 * 0.04 = 9.76, or around 10. Since your TDS is higher than 10 after your membrane, it needs to be replaced.

The last stage, the DI resin, should be replaced any time your final TDS is above 0 ppm.

Thanks for your help but this is a new membrane... Just replaced it =(

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Thanks for your help but this is a new membrane... Just replaced it =(

How many gallons have you made with the new membrane? The membranes can have higher TDS when first installed because of the adhesives used during the manufacturing process. If you've run the membrane for more than 2 hours or so, then something else is going on.

Another poster asked this, but is the seal on the membrane intact? Are the O-rings on the bottom in good shape? Did you make sure you pushed the membrane in all the way? The membranes have to be really well-seated in order for no waste water to get into the product water. This is the most likely issue.

Another issue could be the flow restrictor. What kind of restrictor do you have (500ml, 800ml, etc)? If the flow restrictor is broken it could be letting a lot of the water go down the drain. Lower pressure over the membrane could be causing the product water to have higher TDS. If it's the kind with a flush valve, make sure the valve is closed.

 

[Felipe Ramos]

I runned for more than 2 hours... The O rings are perfect.. It's a really brand new membrance.

I have a 500ml flow restrictor... Maybe this can be a problem? How can I test it?

I'm using a GE ROSAVE.Z DEPTH SEDIMENT FILTER, Followed by 1 micron carbon block Matrikx, then a 0.6 micron carbon block matrikx (pink ring) and then membrane.... Resin is brand new as well but I'm not using it yet because I'm trying to see whats going wrong with the membrane but as I said, it's all brand new