High-Tech Unlucky

[MrWolf]

I work in technology and I love high-tech.
As I don't really like doing maintenance on my aquarium, I try to use available technology to automate what can be done.
I'd like to know if I'm the only unlucky or if the high tech lacks of QA.

As a second Reef tank, I decided to buy a Redsea Reefer250, which is really great.
to replace the needs of cleaning the filter sock, I decided to install a ClariSea SK-3000.
1st bad luck:
The motor button was not working and when I hold it, the SK-3000 was resetting.
After emailing the support, they told me they had some issue with a batch and the controller was assembled up side down.
I needed to open the cover and turn the inside of the controller to make it work correctly.
problem solved.

As I don't really like doing water test, I decided to buy a Seneye Reef to monitor PH and NH3.
2nd bad luck:
After I installed the first slide, the PH reading was good for maybe 12hours then dropped slowly and constantly.
API PH test was reading 8.3 (or so)
and the seneye reported down to 7.6
The slide had a whiteish spot in the center and when I replace the slide for a new one (soaked for 48h) the reading is good (back to 8.25) for 12h then, start slowly to drop.
Seneye sent me a new replacement device, but I still have the same issue with the new device.
it's been 3 months, and I still don't have an accurate device.

As I really don't like doing water test, I also decided to buy a Reefbot from Reef Kinetics.
3rd bad luck:
I was so excited when I received this beautiful piece of technology.
I readed the instruction carefully and connected the device.
The only thing I had was four red light.
After contacting the support, I had to replace the firmware on the sd card and the machine start working.
After my first test, luckuly, I did only one, I had a puddle of water at the base of the machine.
I cleaned everything and did another test with scott towel in hand.
The test chamber was filling (multiple times) but never draining.
I contacted back the support and I verified the pump and the board in the back.
the board was not sending any voltage to the pump when it was time to drain.
I'm currently waiting for a replacement board.

What do you think about High Tech in aquarium?
Did you had same kind of issue with high tech?

 

[homer1475]

And this is why I stick to manual testing, manual WC, and manually changing out my filter socks(when using them).

Sometimes high tech doesn't equal less work. When one solely relies on these pieces of equipment, and they fail, sometimes catastrophically, one realizes maybe reefing isn't a hobby or them.

I do own an use my apex to it's full extent. I started reefing without it, and can uncouple my reef from it and be just fine. I will have to do things a little more manually, but I would be fine without it.

That is certainly a run of bad luck with tech though.

 

[Arricefe]

I have a coworker that’s says the software is going to kill us. You’ve had some bad luck With your gear that’s for sure maybe simple is better.

 

[R.Weller]

We've had much more success in our reefkeeping depending on biology vs. technology. I appreciate that the tech is evolving quickly & that prices will start to become more reasonable as adoption grows. Hopefully, the impact of scale will drive suppliers to address their QA issues before their tech reaches production.

As much as I would like to install sensors on everything & rely less on redundant designs, until R2R members have less experiences as you have shared, I'm sticking with cheap, disposable hardware & manual processes that can take time, but are safe for the ecosystem. Thanks for sharing your experiences & I hope you land quality components soon.

 

[Big E]

Some hi-tech gadgets are fairly new and have not been field tested. We end being those company's field test.............it's common for this to happen.

I always try to wait things out till a new product has all the bugs fixed or proves itself over time.

I prefer to be more hands on and avoid all those tech gadgets as well.
I wouldn't be in this hobby if it's about playing with tech toys.

I look it as the same as caring for other pets.........they joy is in doing the actual care yourself, not relaying on automation.

 

[jda]

I have written what seems like "books" on this. There is nothing that is "high tech" in this hobby, just "tech." I was a software engineer for years and years and there is nothing enterprise class about anything out there besides maybe a Ranco, mercury thermometer, MagDrive pumps, magnetic ballasts and some tunze (and a few others) wave controllers. I was SE at Google and they are above and beyond with QA, redundancy, etc, but reef stuff is still not even middling compared to real software and tech. Just to be clear, I have a bachelors and masters in computer science and I owe most of what I have in life to tech, but there is a time and there is also not a time. Thinking that tech can solve any problem is usually the thought of an immature techie... knowing that tech cannot help with everything is higher level... knowing when you can and cannot is even better... knowing that even the best tech requires constant human involvement is the ultimate. Off topic, but we once had a dual pHd in Physics and Math from MIT that was getting his front door vandalized, so he got a $1000 video door bell to solve "all of his problems..." then he got a sweet video of the people who were doing it all in black hoodies and hats and never could get a look at them... so don't be like him and be astonished when tech cannot solve your issues (he never did amount to much in our company).

I wrote my own controller once on a Mac Mini, bought real enterprise grade probes and meters, could ssh in from anywhere, etc. and it still did nothing for me even though it would back it's self up to AWS and restore it's self and truly was enterprise class. It was in Ruby, j2ee and bash backup and stuff - code was on github if you want to find it, but I have not looked in years. This stuff would crush an Apex or anything else on the market, but I wrote real code with no limitations to the pseudo coding offered by the manufacturer - higher ability, but also needs higher ability. I could code, compile and deploy from across the world if I wanted to...

The bottom line is that the harder that you work to take your eyes off of the tank, the less success that you will have. Beyond the basics, do most things yourself at least for a few years until you know your tank and the hobby inside out... if you want to automate stuff, then find a different hobby or write your own. Monitoring is different and I can see some uses there.**

I helped some people on RC back in the day get their USB probes set and programmed in best-two-of-three, so you might be able to search for those if you care. Here is a whole fun thread that people started about me and my hatred of commercially available "tech" that is out there - I have a long reply on page two. This was done in fun and jest even though some thought that they were making fun of me...

If Santa sent Jda an Apex "Controller" for Christmas!

Lol funny thread. JDA uses Phoenix bulbs iirc I think you’re right. Well looks like I don’t know him either!

www.reef2reef.com

** Read my last post in that thread. I would only buy aquarium tech if I was forced to use unreliable equipment like DC pumps, Chinese patent stealing stuff or heaters without a good controller. Since I only use reliable stuff, the reliable stuff is less prone to failure than then stuff monitoring it, so why bother? Monitoring would be my only need, but I could also just buy some high quality probes and use an old ubuntu box or mac mini and write my own that is better.

/tldr

 

[MrWolf]

Little update.
For the Seneye, the new device is finally good.
Seneye asked me to remove the USB extension I had between my PC and the Seneye. The slides stopped bleaching.
The Seneye is now stable and seems to be accurate compared to the manual water test I do.

For the Reefbot, it's another story.
I received the replacement board.
At that point I decided to do my test with "Test chamber calibration" as I can see if the parts are working or not faster and with less mess if anything goes wrong.
So, with the new board, the draining pump was working but, the filling pump wasn't and made a really bad noise.
Reef Kinetics made me do a lot of checkups to be sure everything was well connected but still, the filling pump wasn't working. As they didn't know what to do, they send me a new filling pump and pump head.
When I finally received them, and replace them, I had the same issue.
So I decided to test again with the old board...
Filling pump was working, so it wasn't the pump or the pump head, but the draining pump stop working.
1st board: filling pump not working
2nd board: draining pump not working
So Reef Kinectics help me find the chip on the board that do each function and I swapped the chip from "filling pump".
At this point... Hurray, both filling and draining pump was working.
So I decided to finally do my first test...
but hey, the water isn't swirling.
The stirrer is not stirring...
Water is filling and draining but without mixing the water with the test solution so my test are far from good.

As it takes time to remove and replace the board and I don't want to change all the chips on the board without knowing what I do, I'm waiting for an answer from Reef Kinetics on what chip to swap, if any chip can be swapped for this issue, or if the issue is coming from all the saltwater that goes over the stirrer when the draining pump wasn't working at first.

 

[Pistondog]

I have a coworker that’s says the software is going to kill us. You’ve had some bad luck With your gear that’s for sure maybe simple is better.

I agree with your coworker, and say the same thing. As systems become more complex, there's more chance for software failures. I have a wireless charger for my phone. Blue light indicates charging, but is supposed to turn off after 30 secs or so. If the charger is plugged in for more than 2 weeks, the light never turns off. A power cycle fixes for 2 weeks. This is a well known symptom of the internal millisecond timer rolling over from 4 billion to zero, but the programmer didn't handle this. Bad software will be our ruin.

 

[Arricefe]

I agree with your coworker, and say the same thing. As systems become more complex, there's more chance for software failures. I have a wireless charger for my phone. Blue light indicates charging, but is supposed to turn off after 30 secs or so. If the charger is plugged in for more than 2 weeks, the light never turns off. A power cycle fixes for 2 weeks. This is a well known symptom of the internal millisecond timer rolling over from 4 billion to zero, but the programmer didn't handle this. Bad software will be our ruin.

It's already killing us. I work on a former Air force Base that has about 50 brand new undeliverable Boeing 737 Max jets just sitting on the ramp because they killed a bunch of people.