High temp heater shut-off recommendations

[EricR]

Due to a recent heater calamity, I'm currently looking for a high temp shutoff device of some kind (so just hoping for some ideas/recommendations).

FOWLR w/2 x 100W self-contained submersible heaters (so it'd need to handle those).
No aquarium controller or monitoring,,, just simple stuff.

Isn't there some kind of simple shutoff device that has just an AC outlet and a temperature probe, where you set the max temp and if it hits that, the AC outlet shuts OFF?
*I get that if one heater goes HOT, it'd kill both,,, but I'm OK with that as an option right now.

 

[Gtinnel]

It seems like an inkbird temp controller is what you are looking for.

 

[EricR]

It seems like an inkbird temp controller is what you are looking for.

Thanks,,, if you have thoughts on a specific, basic/inexpensive one, let me know.
Otherwise, I'll start researching those more...

 

[Gtinnel]

Thanks,,, if you have thoughts on a specific, basic/inexpensive one, let me know.
Otherwise, I'll start researching those more...

I've only used the ITC-306A, which is the more expensive one, but can still be found for just a little over $50. It includes two temp probes and uses wifi so it can be controlled with an app. With the ITC-306A you have to allow it to cycle your heaters on and off and not just as an emergency shutoff, because if it keeps the outlets on for a certain amount of time it sets an alarm to let you know that you tank wasn't able to reach temp in a set amount of time.
If you want as cheap as possible they make an ITC-306T. I've never used it so I can't comment about it, but if you go that route make sure to get the one that has the plastic aquarium probe.
They also make one that allows for one outlet for cooling and one for heating if that is something you need. I don't know the model # right off.

 

[EricR]

I've only used the ITC-306A, which is the more expensive one, but can still be found for just a little over $50. It includes two temp probes and uses wifi so it can be controlled with an app. With the ITC-306A you have to allow it to cycle your heaters on and off and not just as an emergency shutoff, because if it keeps the outlets on for a certain amount of time it sets an alarm to let you know that you tank wasn't able to reach temp in a set amount of time.
If you want as cheap as possible they make an ITC-306T. I've never used it so I can't comment about it, but if you go that route make sure to get the one that has the plastic aquarium probe.
They also make one that allows for one outlet for cooling and one for heating if that is something you need. I don't know the model # right off.

Thanks again for the tips!

 

[lefkonj]

I have a JBJ titanium on my system. Didn't need a heater in the beginning but after switching to DC pumps a few years ago the tank would drop to 74/75 in the winter. I added a heater but it only is on until 79 then it is powered off, by the controller. If the temp hits 80 the Apex kills power.

 

[EricR]

I have a JBJ titanium on my system. Didn't need a heater in the beginning but after switching to DC pumps a few years ago the tank would drop to 74/75 in the winter. I added a heater but it only is on until 79 then it is powered off, by the controller. If the temp hits 80 the Apex kills power.

Yeah, the submersible heaters I have control their own on/off based on temp. I was just looking for an easy fail safe in case one gets stuck ON. I don't have an Apex (or any aquarium controller/monitoring device). Just cheap/simple stuff.

 

[EricR]

I've only used the ITC-306A, which is the more expensive one, but can still be found for just a little over $50. It includes two temp probes and uses wifi so it can be controlled with an app. With the ITC-306A you have to allow it to cycle your heaters on and off and not just as an emergency shutoff, because if it keeps the outlets on for a certain amount of time it sets an alarm to let you know that you tank wasn't able to reach temp in a set amount of time.
If you want as cheap as possible they make an ITC-306T. I've never used it so I can't comment about it, but if you go that route make sure to get the one that has the plastic aquarium probe.
They also make one that allows for one outlet for cooling and one for heating if that is something you need. I don't know the model # right off.

So, if I buy the ITC-306A, I'd set it up this way:
-- set each submersible heater's thermostat to whatever I want the MAX FAIL-SAFE top temp to be
-- use the ITC-306A to control the actual normal on/off temps

...right?

I was originally thinking opposite (i.e. let the heaters regulate the temp and have whichever Inkbird controller I buy just be the fail-safe shutoff but, now, I think the other way makes way more sense)

 

[Gtinnel]

So, if I buy the ITC-306A, I'd set it up this way:
-- set each submersible heater's thermostat to whatever I want the MAX FAIL-SAFE top temp to be
-- use the ITC-306A to control the actual normal on/off temps

...right?

I was originally thinking opposite (i.e. let the heaters regulate the temp and have whichever Inkbird controller I buy just be the fail-safe shutoff but, now, I think the other way makes way more sense)

With the ITC-306A that is exactly correct. I think with the cheaper ones it can go either way but I can't say for sure.

 

[blaxsun]

I use a pair of Schego 300-watt titanium heaters on an Inkbird 306A. These run off an Apex energy bar with a separate temperature probe and are configured with a “kill switch” in the event the heaters ever run amok. I’ve also got a backup Hygger 500-att run soley by the Apex for emergencies.

 

[EricR]

I use a pair of Schego 300-watt titanium heaters on an Inkbird 306A. These run off an Apex energy bar with a separate temperature probe and are configured with a “kill switch” in the event the heaters ever run amok. I’ve also got a backup Hygger 500-att run soley by the Apex for emergencies.

Right. My heaters each have their own thermostat so self-regulate. A "kill switch" in case one of the heaters sticks ON is what I was looking for. I don't have an Apex (or anything similar) as it's just a simple 37 gallon setup with nothing fancy. Was thinking I'd just use an Inkbird controller as the "kill switch" only but now I'm thinking it has to control the actual heaters (on/off).

 

[blaxsun]

Right. My heaters each have their own thermostat so self-regulate. A "kill switch" in case one of the heaters sticks ON is what I was looking for. I don't have an Apex (or anything similar) as it's just a simple 37 gallon setup with nothing fancy. Was thinking I'd just use an Inkbird controller as the "kill switch" only but now I'm thinking it has to control the actual heaters (on/off).

Nope, an Inkbird will do the trick. The Inkbird has two outlets, so you’ll plug each heater into one. When configuring the Inkbird (this will make more sense once you have it and install the app to control it), set it up as follows:

* On temperature: -1.0-1.5 lower than what you have your heaters set to, ie: 78.0 > set the On Inkbird to 76.0-76.5.
* Off temperature: +1.0-2.0 higher than what you have your heaters set to, ie: 78.0 > set the Off Inkbird to somewhere between 79.0 and 80.0.

You’ll want to place the temperature probes for the Inkbird close to your existing heaters, otherwise it will end up reading a lower temperature than the heaters.

This setup will basically keep the Inkbird on at all times unless the temperature goes above 79-80.0, at which point it will shut it off until the temperature drops back below 76.5 - and then power on the heaters again. If you want more margin for error, change the Off Inkbird temperature to something between 81.0-82.0 instead.

You’ll also get a notification that this has occurred, which will give you time to troubleshoot, etc.

 

[HB AL]

Only controller I have is an Inkbird ànd it does its job.

 

[Gtinnel]

Nope, an Inkbird will do the trick. The Inkbird has two outlets, so you’ll plug each heater into one. When configuring the Inkbird (this will make more sense once you have it and install the app to control it), set it up as follows:

* On temperature: -1.0-1.5 lower than what you have your heaters set to, ie: 78.0 > set the On Inkbird to 76.0-76.5.
* Off temperature: +1.0-2.0 higher than what you have your heaters set to, ie: 78.0 > set the Off Inkbird to somewhere between 79.0 and 80.0.

You’ll want to place the temperature probes for the Inkbird close to your existing heaters, otherwise it will end up reading a lower temperature than the heaters.

This setup will basically keep the Inkbird on at all times unless the temperature goes above 79-80.0, at which point it will shut it off until the temperature drops back below 76.5 - and then power on the heaters again. If you want more margin for error, change the Off Inkbird temperature to something between 81.0-82.0 instead.

You’ll also get a notification that this has occurred, which will give you time to troubleshoot, etc.

So if I understand what you are describing you are using the thermostats on your heaters to control the regular cycling on and off, and then the inkbird is your failsafe? If you are using the ITC-306A how do you avoid the continous heating error that the inkbird sets if it keeps the outlets on for a certain number of hours. I don't see anyway to turn this off, it can just be adjusted from 1-72 hours, unless I'm missing something.

 

[blaxsun]

So if I understand what you are describing you are using the thermostats on your heaters to control the regular cycling on and off, and then the inkbird is your failsafe? If you are using the ITC-306A how do you avoid the continous heating error that the inkbird sets if it keeps the outlets on for a certain number of hours. I don't see anyway to turn this off, it can just be adjusted from 1-72 hours, unless I'm missing something.

Sorry, my bad - my setup is a bit different and I completely forgot about the continuous heating feature as it doesn't apply in my scenario. Apparently you can't disable the continuous heating aspect, but there may be a way to "jury rig" the Inkbird to get around it.

In the Inkbird Pro app there's a menu called "Smart" along the bottom. I believe you can set a schedule to power the Inkbird off/on at a set time every day which should reset the continuous heating time. I know that's not necessarily ideal - but it should allow you to use the Inkbird as a "cheap Apex".
..........

FYI, my complete setup is as follows:

Neptune Apex
|_ 1x Neptune temperature probe (pre-heater chamber)
*Apex configuration:
Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 76.0 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.5 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then OFF
|_ EB32 energy bar
|_ Inkbird Pro
|_ Schego 300-watt titanium heater (no controller)
|_ Schego 300-watt titanium heater (no controller)
|_ 2x Inkbird temperature probe (heater chamber)
*Inkbird: T1: 78.1°F, T2: 78.6°F, Continuous: 4 hours
*Apex configuration:
Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.5 Then ON
If Tmp > 79.5 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then ON
|_ Hygger 500-watt titanium heater (no controller)
*Apex configuration:
Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 76.0 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.5 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then OFF

The Inkbird controllers the two primary/secondary heaters, powering them on if the temperature drops to or below 78.1°F and powering them off it it reaches or exceeds 78.6°F. There are numerous failsafes with this configuration.

First and foremost, the Inkbird regulates the temperature within the set parameters. It will also alarm if for any reason continuous heating (on time) exceeds 4 hours, which would indicate a potential problem with one or both of the heaters. Second, the Apex performs regular backup temperature checks to see if the temperature drops to or below 77.5°F such that it ensures the outlet is on (as this was perhaps the root cause) and that if it exceeds 79.5°F to turn the outlet and the Inkbird off. Finally, in the event the Inkbird and/or associated heaters fail, the Apex resorts to cycling the tertiary backup heater on/off as temperature fluctuates between 76-77.5°F.

The tertiary heater is set to run slightly cooler than the primary/secondary heaters to ensure there isn't any conflicts that could arise to trigger all three heaters simultaneously

 

[Gtinnel]

Sorry, my bad - my setup is a bit different and I completely forgot about the continuous heating feature as it doesn't apply in my scenario. Apparently you can't disable the continuous heating aspect, but there may be a way to "jury rig" the Inkbird to get around it.

In the Inkbird Pro app there's a menu called "Smart" along the bottom. I believe you can set a schedule to power the Inkbird off/on at a set time every day which should reset the continuous heating time. I know that's not necessarily ideal - but it should allow you to use the Inkbird as a "cheap Apex".
..........

FYI, my complete setup is as follows:

Neptune Apex
|_ 1x Neptune temperature probe (pre-heater chamber)
*Apex configuration:
Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 76.0 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.5 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then OFF
|_ EB32 energy bar
|_ Inkbird Pro
|_ Schego 300-watt titanium heater (no controller)
|_ Schego 300-watt titanium heater (no controller)
|_ 2x Inkbird temperature probe (heater chamber)
*Inkbird: T1: 78.1°F, T2: 78.6°F, Continuous: 4 hours
*Apex configuration:
Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.5 Then ON
If Tmp > 79.5 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then ON
|_ Hygger 500-watt titanium heater (no controller)
*Apex configuration:
Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 76.0 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.5 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then OFF

The Inkbird controllers the two primary/secondary heaters, powering them on if the temperature drops to or below 78.1°F and powering them off it it reaches or exceeds 78.6°F. There are numerous failsafes with this configuration.

First and foremost, the Inkbird regulates the temperature within the set parameters. It will also alarm if for any reason continuous heating (on time) exceeds 4 hours, which would indicate a potential problem with one or both of the heaters. Second, the Apex performs regular backup temperature checks to see if the temperature drops to or below 77.5°F such that it ensures the outlet is on (as this was perhaps the root cause) and that if it exceeds 79.5°F to turn the outlet and the Inkbird off. Finally, in the event the Inkbird and/or associated heaters fail, the Apex resorts to cycling the tertiary backup heater on/off as temperature fluctuates between 76-77.5°F.

The tertiary heater is set to run slightly cooler than the primary/secondary heaters to ensure there isn't any conflicts that could arise to trigger all three heaters simultaneously

Ok so the takeaway from this is that you are doing the normal cycling of the heaters with the inkbird.
I have an apex but I don't honestly use it for much. I ultimately plan on doing it the way you have it (although I never thought about adding in a third emergency heater), but I have not gotten the motivation to re-do my wiring to where I can plug my inkbird into the energy bar yet.

 

[blaxsun]

Ok so the takeaway from this is that you are doing the normal cycling of the heaters with the inkbird.
I have an apex but I don't honestly use it for much. I ultimately plan on doing it the way you have it (although I never thought about adding in a third emergency heater), but I have not gotten the motivation to re-do my wiring to where I can plug my inkbird into the energy bar yet.

Yes. There are little if any issues to be had with “inanimate titanium rods”, hence my preference for them. You could also use a controlled heater as an emergency backup and have the Apex trigger that in a similar way. Feel free to beg/borrow/steal my Apex setup, and if/when you get around to rewiring and have any Q’s - please don’t hesitate to drop me a line.

 

[EricR]

This "Heater Safety Control" is exactly what I was looking for, but it costs more than the Inkbird ITC-306A, yet is nowhere near as sophisticated (I think):



Post #9 above probably still makes most sense for my situation -- Inkbird controls normal temp and each heater set to MAX/FAIL temp just in case Inkbird gets stuck ON (if that even ever happens).


Reviews of this cheaper Inkbird ITC-306T mention being able to turn OFF the "on too long" alarm to use as a kill switch so I'm considering this one:



*I was thinking, let the heaters do the work and start failing, one at a time, saving the Inkbird switches so it lasts longer but then, I guess, what's the point of having the Inkbird if not really using its abilities. (((Yep -- don't overthink it,,, too late)))