Hippo Tang with HLLE

YoungReefer00

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Hello,

About 3 weeks ago I have bought a new hippo tang to add to my display tank, when I took him home I immediatly put him in a copper quarantine to make sure he is parasite free.
He is beginning to show signs of HLLE and I am worried that the copper in the quarantine tank is the cause. He has not shown any sign of any parasite or illness except ofcourse HLLE and he has been eating well. Should I put him in the display tank to prevent more damage from the HLLE?
 
What size tank?

HLLE is normally a reaction to a nutritional deficiency. In studies B vitamins have reversed in a laboratory setting. There are also studies that low quality carbon maybe the cause of some cases.

Copper is often an appetite suppressor, and hippo tangs are often afflicted by hlle. These 2 together could have combined.
Id feed a little more vigorously with foods high in vitamins and adding a vitamin like vitachem.
 
hi ,i am going to say no,wait for expert answers they will come shortly :)
 
What size tank?

HLLE is normally a reaction to a nutritional deficiency. In studies B vitamins have reversed in a laboratory setting. There are also studies that low quality carbon maybe the cause of some cases.

Copper is often an appetite suppressor, and hippo tangs are often afflicted by hlle. These 2 together could have combined.
Id feed a little more vigorously with foods high in vitamins and adding a vitamin like vitachem.

The display tank is 120g
 
Assure water quality is good. Maintain proper diet requirements. Feed at minimum:
Mysis shrimp
LRS herbivore diet
Sm plankton
Formula 2 flake and frozen
Spirulina brine shrimp

** add garlic extract and selcon vitamins to its food2-3x per week
 
Assure water quality is good. Maintain proper diet requirements. Feed at minimum:
Mysis shrimp
LRS herbivore diet
Sm plankton
Formula 2 flake and frozen
Spirulina brine shrimp

** add garlic extract and selcon vitamins to its food2-3x per week

I've been feeding him with:
HSaqua Marine Granules
Ocean Nutrition Seaweed/Marine Algae Green
Mysis Shrimp
Artemia Shrimp
Krill

I will go out and buy Ocean Nutrition spirulina flakes to give him the necessary B vitamins I guess the other products lack those.
 
I've been feeding him with:
HSaqua Marine Granules
Ocean Nutrition Seaweed/Marine Algae Green
Mysis Shrimp
Artemia Shrimp
Krill

I will go out and buy Ocean Nutrition spirulina flakes to give him the necessary B vitamins I guess the other products lack those.
Small, soft and meaty is great. On the seaweed, baste it with garlic extract
 
I own a scopas that lives at my lfs that was rescued to the shop with hlle and wasn't eating.
I am working on a home for her, I already have 2 scopas' in my main tank.
I went in every day for a week until I got her eating and now she eats anything!
If you have a refugium it will love fresh macro algae, not cheato and it's naturally good for it.
 
Actually no one knows what causes HLLE but everyone has a theory, including myself.
It is not a disease but a condition of captivity as wild fish do not get it.
The latest theory (which I do not believe) is carbon fines from activated carbon.

Electricity, nutrition and water conditions have been suggested but none of these seems plausible because if a fish is eating well and there is no carbon or stray electricity in the water, fish, especially tangs still get it.

It is also not curable because the epidermis actually disappears but the fish can look a little better. It will always be scarred unless it is a very mild case.

My theory is that because a fish have a Lateral line which is a bundle of nerves that run along the sides of all fish and let them know what is next to them and allows them to navigate in total darkness, this line can "feel" everything that is near the fish. It also allows fish, especially tangs to swim in schools right next to each other without hitting each other. It allows them to fit in a small space in a coral reef without getting cut

HLLE or Lateral line erosion always starts on the head right where the lateral line enters the brain.

A fish in the sea has nothing around it except other fish, but in a tank it can sense the glass sides of the tank and the bottom. Fish in the sea don't generally swim a few inches over the bottom or constantly a few inches from a glass wall. A wall they can't see by the way.

This constant bombardment of impulses to the lateral line, eventually erodes it causing HLLE.

I also feel this is the reason some fish, like tangs, lookdowns, copperbands etc have tall, flat bodies compared to say a makeral. That shape allows the fish to have a much longer lateral line.

This is also the reason Great White Sharks can't be kept in square tanks with straight sides, they go nuts and die because Great White Sharks have a much more sensitive lateral line than all other fish which allows them to find all those accountants that are floundering around in the water.

A smaller tank will make the condition worse as will quarantine in a small tank. I also feel copper will stress the fish more accelerating the condition.

You can clearly see the lateral line arching over the back of my copperband here.
It's that line of scales that start near her eye and is slightly raised from the rest of the scales. All fish have this but on some it is harder to see. That is the most important sense on a fish and they couldn't navigate without it. It is also why you can't catch a fish with a net unless you trap it against something and why fish never crash into the glass even though they can't see it.

 
Last edited:
Actually no one knows what causes HLLE but everyone has a theory, including myself.
It is not a disease but a condition of captivity as wild fish do not get it.
The latest theory (which I do not believe) is carbon fines from activated carbon.

Electricity, nutrition and water conditions have been suggested but none of these seems plausible because if a fish is eating well and there is no carbon or stray electricity in the water, fish, especially tangs still get it.

It is also not curable because the epidermis actually disappears but the fish can look a little better. It will always be scarred unless it is a very mild case.

My theory is that because a fish have a Lateral line which is a bundle of nerves that run along the sides of all fish and let them know what is next to them and allows them to navigate in total darkness, this line can "feel" everything that is near the fish. It also allows fish, especially tangs to swim in schools right next to each other without hitting each other. It allows them to fit in a small space in a coral reef without getting cut

HLLE or Lateral line erosion always starts on the head right where the lateral line enters the brain.

A fish in the sea has nothing around it except other fish, but in a tank it can sense the glass sides of the tank and the bottom. Fish in the sea don't generally swim a few inches over the bottom or constantly a few inches from a glass wall. A wall they can't see by the way.

This constant bombardment of impulses to the lateral line, eventually erodes it causing HLLE.

I also feel this is the reason some fish, like tangs, lookdowns, copperbands etc have tall, flat bodies compared to say a makeral. That shape allows the fish to have a much longer lateral line.

This is also the reason Great White Sharks can't be kept in square tanks with straight sides, they go nuts and die because Great White Sharks have a much more sensitive lateral line than all other fish which allows them to find all those accountants that are floundering around in the water.

A smaller tank will make the condition worse as will quarantine in a small tank. I also feel copper will stress the fish more accelerating the condition.

You can clearly see the lateral line arching over the back of my copperband here.
It's that line of scales that start near her eye and is slightly raised from the rest of the scales. All fish have this but on some it is harder to see. That is the most important sense on a fish and they couldn't navigate without it. It is also why you can't catch a fish with a net unless you trap it against something and why fish never crash into the glass even though they can't see it.


The tang will be transferred over to my display tank on Friday since the quarantine will be done by then, my 120g display should be plenty big for a juvenile hippo tang so I will keep an eye on him and feed him well to see if the HLLE will stop developing on his body. He only has a tiny bit of erosion on his head so far so I am hoping it stays like this.
 
QT is stressful. I've had a number of fish get lateral line erosion in QT only to have it disappear within a few months once they make it into the DT. I wouldn't worry about it and it's definitely NOT a reason to cut QT short.

I buy "blemished" Angels on Liveaquaria because they're usually 30% cheaper. The blemish is almost always HLLE that resolves quickly once they get into the DT. Remove the stress and the fish will do great. Although I'd argue a 120 is way undersized for a Regal, and hopefully you have plans to upgrade soon.
 
Lateral Lines.

 
QT is stressful. I've had a number of fish get lateral line erosion in QT only to have it disappear within a few months once they make it into the DT. I wouldn't worry about it and it's definitely NOT a reason to cut QT short.

I buy "blemished" Angels on Liveaquaria because they're usually 30% cheaper. The blemish is almost always HLLE that resolves quickly once they get into the DT. Remove the stress and the fish will do great. Although I'd argue a 120 is way undersized for a Regal, and hopefully you have plans to upgrade soon.

Im happy that it only started now, he has been in QT for 4 weeks this Friday so I wont have to see him stress out in the QT tank anymore. I am currently saving up for a Red Sea Reefer 3XL 900 which will be plenty for him when he gets bigger, I am not worried that my 120g (5ft long, 1.5ft wide and 2ft high) is too small for him at this stage since they take plenty of time to grow for me to purchase the red sea reefer. Anyway thanks for the advice!
 
Good advice ^^^ above. Especially adding some other macro algaes for grazing. Consider adding Beta Glucan to help the fish's immune system respond to the copper suppressing its function. More info below:
The lateral line theory that @Paul B posted is one I share. It is supported by the results we see when tangs and other "slab sided" fish do so much better in very large QTs that are really a secondary display tank in size and configuration.

 
I am going to be in the minority here, and that's ok. I have a hippo tang that is about 6 years old I think. Well, that's how long I have had it at least. About 2 years ago it started getting HLLE. I tried everything, feeding more, removing carbon, frequent water changes to have pristine water quality, basically tried all of the theories. NOTHING helped. He got to the point where he looked like he had small dents in his head, and was losing his blue color all over his head. I eventually became desperate and did an ICP test and it came back with 40ppb copper, as well as several other heavy hetals, that I traced back to a few rusty parts. By this time he was swimming erratically and due to a lack of better terms was constantly spazzing out and wedging himself under rocks. Once I figured out the copper and metal thing and made corrections, to my amazement he quickly became another fish. Then within about a month all the spots on his head started healing. And then they started getting their normal blue pigment back. I ABSOLUTELY think copper especially in a QT can cause HLLE. Now I am not saying not to QT or not to use copper. I am just saying what my experience was. I personally do not think there is one particular cause of HLLE, but many things can cause it, like @Paul B was saying, different stressors.

Being that your hippo is almost done in copper. I would let him finish the course.
 
I am going to be in the minority here, and that's ok. I have a hippo tang that is about 6 years old I think. Well, that's how long I have had it at least. About 2 years ago it started getting HLLE. I tried everything, feeding more, removing carbon, frequent water changes to have pristine water quality, basically tried all of the theories. NOTHING helped. He got to the point where he looked like he had small dents in his head, and was losing his blue color all over his head. I eventually became desperate and did an ICP test and it came back with 40ppb copper, as well as several other heavy hetals, that I traced back to a few rusty parts. By this time he was swimming erratically and due to a lack of better terms was constantly spazzing out and wedging himself under rocks. Once I figured out the copper and metal thing and made corrections, to my amazement he quickly became another fish. Then within about a month all the spots on his head started healing. And then they started getting their normal blue pigment back. I ABSOLUTELY think copper especially in a QT can cause HLLE. Now I am not saying not to QT or not to use copper. I am just saying what my experience was. I personally do not think there is one particular cause of HLLE, but many things can cause it, like @Paul B was saying, different stressors.

Being that your hippo is almost done in copper. I would let him finish the course.
The first few paragraphs of this paper might interest you:

 

Good article. The most prolific line from it IMO (in context to what we are discussing):

The most vulnerable to pollutants are the sensory organs whose receptory elements open to the environment, namely, olfaction, taste, and LATERAL LINE.
 
Many years ago I had a Chevron Tang. Every tank I kept him in was free of hair algae. In the second tank after he cleaned it up he developed hole in the head or HLLE. I tried every type of sheet algae sold, he would never touch any of it. I was taking the tank down and going in a different direction so I gave him to the fish store to place in their 135 frag tank which was riddled with hair algae. In six months the tank was clean and to my surprise so was his hole in the head/HLLE. They were moving to smaller frag tanks so I took him back home and added Spirulina Brine to his diet. To my amazement the hole in the head never returned.
 
so I don’t want to hijack the post but I picked up this tang today it has beautiful colors and I unfortunately don’t have a qt tank so he went straight into my display. Is this hlle by its eyes? It was in a frag tank at a local fish store for the last 6 months so I assumed it was in good health. If it’s hlle will feeding a good diet and maintaining good water conditions fix/stop the spread?
3FFE4B88-74D7-442A-9F87-F9E2B1EA8E52.jpeg
624710DA-3574-4555-B37F-A6DFB6C6102F.jpeg
 

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