Hippo with dark spots

FishStixx2 · Sep 18, 2020

Got my 90 gallon cycled and running. Decided its already to small (I used to have a 125)... going 180 or bigger but figured I'd throw some fish in awhile. Picked up 2 clowns and a hippo tang for the kids. Unfortunately the hippo has something. Gonna have to qt. Was hoping someone could identify this for me. I never had a fish illness in all my time with saltwater fish.

Coralsdaily · Sep 18, 2020

A bit hard to tell with the lighting. But I definitely support you in quarantine all fish, not sure the hippo. I know it may be disappointing for the kids to not see them in action right away, but let them know the fish need half a month to get ready for them!
Does the hippo appear a bit emaciated to you?

Flippers4pups · Sep 18, 2020

Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide

Pictorial Guide to Marine Fish Diseases Use this guide to find a picture that most closely matches your fish's symptoms. Click the link, if available for more detailed information on the disease and how to treat it. Ich (Cryptocaryon Irritans) One of the most well-known parasites in the...

www.reef2reef.com

vetteguy53081 · Sep 18, 2020

It appears to be what is known as black spot disease common amongst surgeonfish. The black spots on the fish are tiny Paravortex turbellaria flatworms (Phylum Platyhelminthes) embedded in the skin of the fish. Black spot parasites are much less dangerous and life-threatening, as well as easier to treat, compared to protozoan parasites.
Once these worms start feeding on a host fish they acquire melanin pigmentation, which causes the appearance of black spots about the size of a grain of salt on the body and fin membranes. The worms have the ability to freely move about on fish as the spots do not always remain stationary.
Fir treatment, start with a freshwater dip, followed by a formalin bath (I use ruby rally pro) and continue treatment in a quarantine tank. Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat the tangs in a quararantine tank.

FishStixx2 · Sep 18, 2020

She looks the same as when I got her with the exception of some lost color and now today the spots. I was hoping the lost color was stress. Ive had her for about a week now. The color started fading in the last day or two. She was swimming fine and eating. Today she is swimming and eating but keeps playing dead for a minute or two then back to swimming for awhile.

FishStixx2 · Sep 18, 2020

My current thought- freshwater dip see if anything falls off. If not. Ill pick up some copper treatment tomorrow? Unless someone suggests something else. Couldn't be a worm could it?

FishStixx2 · Sep 18, 2020

vetteguy53081 said:
It appears to be what is known as black spot disease common amongst surgeonfish. The black spots on the fish are tiny Paravortex turbellaria flatworms (Phylum Platyhelminthes) embedded in the skin of the fish. Black spot parasites are much less dangerous and life-threatening, as well as easier to treat, compared to protozoan parasites.
Once these worms start feeding on a host fish they acquire melanin pigmentation, which causes the appearance of black spots about the size of a grain of salt on the body and fin membranes. The worms have the ability to freely move about on fish as the spots do not always remain stationary.
Fir treatment, start with a freshwater dip, followed by a formalin bath (I use ruby rally pro) and continue treatment in a quarantine tank. Praziquantel has been used with some success to treat the tangs in a quararantine tank.

Thanks. Ill pick that up and try that first.

SaltyT · Sep 18, 2020

FishStixx2 said:
She looks the same as when I got her with the exception of some lost color and now today the spots. I was hoping the lost color was stress. Ive had her for about a week now. The color started fading in the last day or two. She was swimming fine and eating. Today she is swimming and eating but keeps playing dead for a minute or two then back to swimming for awhile.

The last pic you posted looks like the tang is malnourished and developing HLLE. You mentioned that it’s eating, is it eating much? Have you noticed any white stringy poop coming out of it?

FishStixx2 · Sep 18, 2020

Can hlle appear in a few days? She was fine. I have a picture of her from everyday I've had her. It's only been 4 days. What a long week its been. I dont use carbon. I could check for stray voltage. I just got selcon in yesterday. I saw hlle could be an issue with them so I ordered it awhile anyway. Figured it couldn't hurt

Jay Hemdal · Sep 18, 2020

FishStixx2 said:
Got my 90 gallon cycled and running. Decided its already to small (I used to have a 125)... going 180 or bigger but figured I'd throw some fish in awhile. Picked up 2 clowns and a hippo tang for the kids. Unfortunately the hippo has something. Gonna have to qt. Was hoping someone could identify this for me. I never had a fish illness in all my time with saltwater fish.

The surgeon is pretty emaciated. It doesn’t have black spot disease, these spots are too diffuse to be that. Most likely it has flukes. My advice would be to try and confirm that by giving it a 5 minute FW dip, then look carefully on the bottom of the container and see if there are flukes.
Jay

Jay Hemdal · Sep 18, 2020

FishStixx2 said:
Can hlle appear in a few days? She was fine. I have a picture of her from everyday I've had her. It's only been 4 days. What a long week its been. I dont use carbon. I could check for stray voltage. I just got selcon in yesterday. I saw hlle could be an issue with them so I ordered it awhile anyway. Figured it couldn't hurt

It isn’t HLLE.
Jay

FishStixx2 · Sep 18, 2020

She doesn't eat near like I remember my yellow tang eating. I tried seaweed on a clip and she won't touch is. She does go after a pellet or two. Today I through half a mega marine cube in and she did go after some of it.

SaltyT · Sep 18, 2020

FishStixx2 said:
She doesn't eat near like I remember my yellow tang eating. I tried seaweed on a clip and she won't touch is. She does go after a pellet or two. Today I through half a mega marine cube in and she did go after some of it.

Jay doesn’t see HLLE starting, but Selcon is still a good idea as hepatus tangs are susceptible to it. Have you performed the FW dip yet?

Jay Hemdal · Sep 19, 2020

SaltyT said:
Jay doesn’t see HLLE starting, but Selcon is still a good idea as hepatus tangs are susceptible to it. Have you performed the FW dip yet?

Hepatus tangs develop two issues that resemble each other: classic HLLE and "epithelial thinning". Classic HLLE, with the deep coalescing pits, is tied to carbon use in every study that has been done. Epithelial thinning is where the fish's skin around the head becomes gets pale, but no pits develop. The one study that has been done of this seems to indicate a tie-in with metal toxicity, but I think it is more likely related to general stress and dietary issues. So - Selcon won't work for HLLE, but could work for epithelial thinning.

In this case, I think the OP should do a diagnostic FW dip, and switch to a variety of meaty, frozen foods, use Selcon if they have it, just to build the fish's body mass back up.

Jay

Paul B · Sep 19, 2020

Unfortunately that fish is in really bad shape and has a few life threatening issues. In such a shape I doubt it will recover "in such a new tank". But I truly hope it does as I hate to see fish die.

Hippo's and many fish rarely do well in a very new tank as they don't feel secure and will always be stressed. Hippo's are stressed anyway just for being a tang which is a schooling fish. But in that tank with nothing to graze on and no "natural looking" places to hide, It doesn't have to much going for it.

Good luck, I am hoping it pulls through.

FishStixx2 · Sep 19, 2020

Of course this is the weekend I have to work overtime. I couldn't stay there knowing this fish is suffering. Rushed home and did a freshwater dip. It appears jay is correct. Flukes in the bin. I only left her in for 3 minutes. She's not doing well at all. Since there is nothing in the tank I dosed the whole tank with prazipro (quite the price tag on this medication). All I can do now is wait.

SaltyT · Sep 19, 2020

Thanks for updating us. Good luck, we’re all hoping your tang pulls through!

SaltyT · Sep 19, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Hepatus tangs develop two issues that resemble each other: classic HLLE and "epithelial thinning". Classic HLLE, with the deep coalescing pits, is tied to carbon use in every study that has been done. Epithelial thinning is where the fish's skin around the head becomes gets pale, but no pits develop. The one study that has been done of this seems to indicate a tie-in with metal toxicity, but I think it is more likely related to general stress and dietary issues. So - Selcon won't work for HLLE, but could work for epithelial thinning.

In this case, I think the OP should do a diagnostic FW dip, and switch to a variety of meaty, frozen foods, use Selcon if they have it, just to build the fish's body mass back up.

Jay

I though epithelial thinning was a precursor of HLLE so thanks for the clarification, Jay! Glad you’re part of the community.

Jay Hemdal · Sep 19, 2020

FishStixx2 said:
Of course this is the weekend I have to work overtime. I couldn't stay there knowing this fish is suffering. Rushed home and did a freshwater dip. It appears jay is correct. Flukes in the bin. I only left her in for 3 minutes. She's not doing well at all. Since there is nothing in the tank I dosed the whole tank with prazipro (quite the price tag on this medication). All I can do now is wait.

Those look like Neobenedenia, they are the toughest fluke to deal with. I understand that you pulled the fish after 3 minutes because it is so weak, but if it survives for say, 24 hours, you should repeat the dip to see if you can dislodge any more flukes. This will only buy you time. Prazipro doesn't work well for this species of fluke - the Praziquantel dose is only 2.5 mg/l, and I've had Neo survive 4 mg/l. Then, the Neo eggs are not affected at all. These eggs can take up to 30 days to hatch. Hyposalinity for 35 days does work.

Jay