HOB or Sump for quick easy frag tank setup

[LanM]

Hello guys, I've been trucking along with my 8 gallon fluval project for the past couple months, but am working on a 29g biocube, and just yesterday I purchased a 25 gallon cube I'm going to be using for a frag tank.

I need to get the 25 cube up and running tomorrow, as I have the opportunity to get 30+lbs of healthy seasoned live rock...and need a place to put it. That said, I want the most economical option. I'm choosing between mounting 2 HOB filters, likely an aquaclear 70 and a seachem tidal for the skimming benefit of the tidal, and the large space in both for just about all variations of media.

Both can be bought for $100 for the pair, and a handful of bucks for acrylic/egg crate for modding baskets. I highly doubt I can set up a sump for that, as I've seen HOB overflows going for almost that alone on the low end. Aesthetics are not of prime importance at the moment, expedience and cost would be.

Question is this: I'd like a layout of the bare minimum sump setup. I've watched numerous videos about DIY sump making, and the options on plumbing, and still not 100% on a diy list.

I'm going to lay out what I think the minimum requirements for a sump are, and I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me if I'm off the reservation.
1) sump tank ($10 10 gallon), silicone, and glass or acrylic baffles ($25?)
2) overflow ($60-$$$)
3) plumbing down into the sump ($20)
4) return pump (maxi-jet 1200 ($26).
Looks like the cheapest of the cheap sump setups would be about $150, no?

I know HOB are generally looked down upon, however I'm under the impression that for a frag tank setup its not the end of the world. I do see the benefit of the sump as housing the live rock and leaving a larger portion of the tank real estate to racks, however my frah tank is 18 inches tall, so the additional height can accomodate rock vs. the typical frag tank depth.

I appreciate any feedback. Thanks guys.

 

[Jesterrace]

To me, I've never been a fan of running a sump on a tank that isn't pre-drilled from the factory. I just think it adds a needless degree of complexity and expense to a small tank. One of the perks of having a smaller tank is less equipment to buy/maintain. I would go with the aquaclear 70 (or 2 of them) and just do frequent water changes (ie 5 gallons each week). It is by far the cheapest solution and the least amount of hassle and for the amount of work and expense you will have a sump won't provide that much benefit for a tank of that size.

 

[LanM]

Thanks for the reply.

Now comes the concern of guessing on dimensions. I have an 18 inch width to work with, and want to mix whatever 2 filters will be largest yet still fit. Dimensions online don't look all that reliable.

 

[lion king]

I would go with an appropriate sized Tidal or one size up. I run a Tidal on a 90, I've also run aquaclears. The difference is the Tidal has the proper flow right out of the box. For the aquaclears to be that efficient you'd need to customize the flow. You can always add a hob skimmer and/or an algae reactor. A drilled tank and sump look nicer, but you can get the same results with hob equipment.

 

[lion king]

Thanks for the reply.

Now comes the concern of guessing on dimensions. I have an 18 inch width to work with, and want to mix whatever 2 filters will be largest yet still fit. Dimensions online don't look all that reliable.

The Tidal 110, rated for 110g is 12" wide.

 

[Cnidoblast]

I would go for a single aquaclear 110 if you can afford the space and money @LanM

 

[LanM]

Thanks for the advice and specs guys.

Put off delivery until Thursday to buy time.

I set the budget at just over 100-125, which would allow for 2 aquaclear 70s or 2 tidal 75s. Or a 110 and a 50....whatever mismash of filter combos fit the back of the darn thing. Nobody has them in Stock, so I'm going to have to guess and amazon it.

What I did not want to do is drop yet another $250 on a sump setup when it's just not necessary, it's a 3rd tank and chances are in 2 months something else will come along that I'll be compelled to buy.

I also have a Marineland c160 canister at my disposal.
I like that aquaclear can bemodded to death, but I also like the fact that I can adjust the flow on the tidal, it skims, and the pump is in the tank...and the 5 year warranty. I did see one video where the guy at a fish store said they thoroughly disappoint him when it came to polishing.

At 12 inches for the 110, that only leaves 6 inches for another filter.
Is it better to go with 2 of something smaller like 2 of the 50''s (aquaclear or tidal), or a single largest? The largest of each has more capacity than 2 of the 50/55 size.

I'm not sure if there's a point of diminished returns for filter size, meaning is the 110/100 size overkill for media and I'd be better suited to 2 smaller filters with smaller compartments but more chambers?

 

[Cnidoblast]

I can tell you that Bob Stark of ESV fame swears by seachem tidals

 

[LanM]

Just ordered a tidal 110. I won't be able to hang a 2nd tidal on the back due to size, but I'm hoping the bigger 110 at .85 gallon capacity was a better choice than 2 of the 55's at .33 gallon, I'm still 30% more than the 2 filters collectively. I'll have to find a smaller fuge if that's on the menu. Ordered a cobalt neotherm 100 and a koralia evo 550 as well.

 

[Cnidoblast]

Good choice

 

[Jesterrace]

Just ordered a tidal 110. I won't be able to hang a 2nd tidal on the back due to size, but I'm hoping the bigger 110 at .85 gallon capacity was a better choice than 2 of the 55's at .33 gallon, I'm still 30% more than the 2 filters collectively. I'll have to find a smaller fuge if that's on the menu. Ordered a cobalt neotherm 100 and a koralia evo 550 as well.

A 110 unit will be plenty for a 25 gallon. If you run that, a solid powerhead (I would recommend the 3rd Gen models between 1350 and 1950 gph) and stick with small weekly water changes then you should be fine. I would look into running something like a chemipure bag in that HOB filter as it will help keep your tank clear and phosphates down.

 

[LanM]

Thanks Jesterrace, I was considering 3rd gen, but I had read elsewhere where someone was running the same setup as I am and was running a 3rd gen and it ended up being way too much flow for his primarily softies tank.

Most of my stuff is softies as well I think I have over 30 zoa frags coming and three or four polyps, couple of mushrooms and a couple of frogspawn if I remember correctly.

I just got home and UPS had dropped off and some new stuff. My God this 110 is gigantic. This tank is 18 in wide, theres marely room for anything else.

I have an auto feeder, a protein skimmer, ato, and wanted to fit a fuge as well....pipe dream.

I'm going to need some help laying out the different chambers I'm going to create within this filter.

 

[LanM]

As a general rule when you use a hang on back filter that has about an inch Gap for mounting on a rim yet I have a 6 mm rimless tank which side do you put the slack. Do you space it so that the extra hangover is inside the tank or do you space it so the filter face is against the back of the tank and the extra space is to the rear of the tank and then put some kind of a support Block in between the two.
I'm trying to make it as narrow as possible but if you're not supposed to stick the slack of the filter housing into the actual tank then I'll have no choice but to mounted flush to the rear wall and deal with the excess on the outside of the tank which effectively makes me have to space it even further away from the wall than I initially thought.

Apologies for any grammatical errors I'm using speech to text

 

[Jesterrace]

Thanks Jesterrace, I was considering 3rd gen, but I had read elsewhere where someone was running the same setup as I am and was running a 3rd gen and it ended up being way too much flow for his primarily softies tank.

Most of my stuff is softies as well I think I have over 30 zoa frags coming and three or four polyps, couple of mushrooms and a couple of frogspawn if I remember correctly.

I just got home and UPS had dropped off and some new stuff. My God this 110 is gigantic. This tank is 18 in wide, theres marely room for anything else.

I have an auto feeder, a protein skimmer, ato, and wanted to fit a fuge as well....pipe dream.

I'm going to need some help laying out the different chambers I'm going to create within this filter.

I would recommend not using the autofeeder. For two reasons:

1) They have a tendency to over feed
2) There is no good way for them to deliver frozen foods (which should be the cornerstone of the diet for fish, corals and inverts). Frozen Foods like LRS Reef Frenzy are arguably the best thing for your tank as a whole. Lots of variety in one food source, very little fillers and dirty nutrients that build up nitrate levels in your tank. I cannot believe the difference between my mysis pellets (I only keep them as a backup now) and my Reef Frenzy in terms of how dirty one makes the tank, how my corals respond, etc.

 

[LanM]

Thanks for the info. I brought home some reef frenzy this evening (Actually purchased it several weeks ago but left it on the counter of the shop).

I'm going to try the reef frenzy. I haven't been feeding my corals, which I'll start to do now that I have something that wont make the tank a cloud of muck.

I'm transfering everything into a 25 cube tomorrow. On my other thread about pellet size, I'm going to list the findings of a caliper measurement pellet test....lets just say the pellet size listed is a joke for both brands tested today.

 

[Jesterrace]

A little goes a very long way with reef frenzy. I do about a quarter inch cube twice a day stick it in a cup of water from the tank and mash it up with a turkey baster and it keeps my Goby, Young Melanurus Wrasse fed as well as my cleaner shrimp and a handful of hermit crabs. The corals definitely appreciate the small and frequent feedings as well (I have a Frogspawn Frag and a Hammer Frag, which are LPS Corals). The standard that is generally applied is what the fish can eat in 2-3 minutes. If you still have lots of visible bits left over after this time, you should cut back on the amount. Obviously if you have more fish you will need a little more food.

 

[LanM]

Thanks for the tips. I have 2 small (1.5 inch) clowns, and an orchid dottyback of just about the same size.

Bubble tip nem, rock nem, couple of acans, favia, ,cyphaestra, and the rest are softies. Just about 30 new ones showing up this coming wed (put off shipping to get this 25 set up properly).