HOB Overflow: Pulling my hair out

Jakemac · Jul 18, 2017

Hey all,

Got back into the reef game about 6 months ago. I wanted to do a simple budget in mind tank. Scored a 60 gallon tank from petsmart with stand for $119. This is not drilled, not reef ready. I said to myself.... "I dont need no stinkin sump". I have had success with HOB tanks before so why not?

Well... im sick of the gear, sick of not finding exactly what I want, just miss my reef ready setup and wish I went that route.

But we are here now... when its time to move homes thats when the new reef ready 90 acrylic can get created and the true tank can be done. As for now i need your help.

I have the tank filled, happy inhabitants, and some slick corals (thanks to A Reef Creations live sale). I dont have the cajones to drill a filled tank thats been drained a tad. Not to mention id have to drill from the inside out (NAH SON). HOB overflow seems to be the only option.

Right now I'm totally at a loss of what to do. Ive looked, gotten nervous, gotten confident, gotten nervous again, read a million posts, watched a million videos (actually 999,999 videos...) and just need someone to hold my hand and tell me its going to be okay.

I feel like 300GPH overflow is too low. 800GPH is too high. I havent created a sump yet, havent purchased anything. Really what I need is someone that knows a heck of a lot more than I do on HOB overflows. I dont want the airline HOB overflow. I want it to be as flood proof as I can (I do like staying married to my wife and a flood would probably be the line hahaha)

This is way past my norm, I can do reef ready drilled tanks but this HOB overflow stuff and their "apparent GPH numbers" has me nervous and walking on egg shells through the process.

- Thanks for reading

saltyfilmfolks · Jul 18, 2017

It's going to be ok.

saltyfilmfolks · Jul 18, 2017

I have the eshopos style overflow , it's never lost siphon unless I've messed with it and done something dumb. It's never overflowed unless I did something dumb like let it get clogged by not ever cleaning it. It didn't overflow btw , water level just got high.

Guesstimate your ghp turnover and rate.

Dt Water vol +sump volume x rate desired(5x 10x)=gph of the pump get an over flow Rated close to that. And a D.C. Pump

The only thing I didn't like about the eshopos is the teeth aren great and can get clogged easily.

happyhourhero · Jul 18, 2017

Brah,

Get a eschopps PF-800 and call it a day. It is easy to set up and is perfect or your tank. You will install it and say, "what the heck! HHH told me to get this and it sounds like a toilet is flushing all the time!" So look up how to build a hofer gurgle buster for a few dollars in pvc from home depot or lowes.
If you need help with anything I will make you video or whatever.

The Eschopps does not rely on a pump and as long as you design your sump right, you wont have failures. Ever.

nitro · Jul 18, 2017

Look at Lifereef, they sell a nice job overflow. I used mine for a year no issues. This tank is glass?
Nitro

Jakemac · Jul 18, 2017

happyhourhero said:
Brah,

Get a eschopps PF-800 and call it a day. It is easy to set up and is perfect or your tank. You will install it and say, "what the heck! HHH told me to get this and it sounds like a toilet is flushing all the time!" So look up how to build a hofer gurgle buster for a few dollars in pvc from home depot or lowes.
If you need help with anything I will make you video or whatever.

The Eschopps does not rely on a pump and as long as you design your sump right, you wont have failures. Ever.

This was the way I wanted to go down to the gurgle buster. Im just nervous from reading too much. Some say the 800 is too big, its going to be a small sump (probably 20 gal)

happyhourhero · Jul 18, 2017

I use it on my 65 with a 20g sump.

Jakemac · Jul 18, 2017

nitro said:
Look at Lifereef, they sell a nice job overflow. I used mine for a year no issues. This tank is glass?
Nitro

Glass yes.

I was looking at them. What makes them so special though. Eschopps looks identical

nitro · Jul 18, 2017

Give him a call he can explain better than me. He is a stand up guy and makes nice simple to use equipment, and he has been doing it forever. Glass would not be too fun to drill with water in it, but it can be done.
Nitro

chipmunkofdoom2 · Jul 18, 2017

The only thing you have to watch out for is bubbles accumulating in the U-tube. If enough bubbles accumulate in the tube, over time this could lead to your siphon breaking. However, the only time I notice bubbles accumulating in the U-tube is when the flow is vastly lower than the box's flow rating. I had a large overflow box on a makeshift QT tank once and the siphon would almost break every few days. But, the overflow box was VASTLY oversized. I think it was rated for 600 GPH and I was only putting around 50GPH through it. In my display tank, where I'm putting about 75% of the box's rated GPH through it, I have never had issues with bubbles, ever. I stop and restart the flow once a day when I feed. No issues at all.

Sump size doesn't really matter. Size the box appropriately for the amount of flow you plan to put through the sump and you'll be fine.

Jakemac · Jul 18, 2017

chipmunkofdoom2 said:
The only thing you have to watch out for is bubbles accumulating in the U-tube. If enough bubbles accumulate in the tube, over time this could lead to your siphon breaking. However, the only time I notice bubbles accumulating in the U-tube is when the flow is vastly lower than the box's flow rating. I had a large overflow box on a makeshift QT tank once and the siphon would almost break every few days. But, the overflow box was VASTLY oversized. I think it was rated for 600 GPH and I was only putting around 50GPH through it. In my display tank, where I'm putting about 75% of the box's rated GPH through it, I have never had issues with bubbles, ever. I stop and restart the flow once a day when I feed. No issues at all.

Sump size doesn't really matter. Size the box appropriately for the amount of flow you plan to put through the sump and you'll be fine.

Id honestly run it at 100% or close to 100% flow. I dont need crazy turnover but why not? Its going to help my flow anyway. Is around 800gph turnover too much for a 60 gal?

saltyfilmfolks · Jul 18, 2017

happyhourhero said:
Brah,

Get a eschopps PF-800 and call it a day. It is easy to set up and is perfect or your tank. You will install it and say, "what the heck! HHH told me to get this and it sounds like a toilet is flushing all the time!" So look up how to build a hofer gurgle buster for a few dollars in pvc from home depot or lowes.
If you need help with anything I will make you video or whatever.

The Eschopps does not rely on a pump and as long as you design your sump right, you wont have failures. Ever.

Dang bro I have that one.
Gotta link? I could not figure that gurgle buster thing out.

happyhourhero · Jul 18, 2017

saltyfilmfolks said:
Dang bro I have that one.
Gotta link? I could not figure that gurgle buster thing out.

http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34531

chipmunkofdoom2 · Jul 18, 2017

Jakemac said:
Id honestly run it at 100% or close to 100% flow. I dont need crazy turnover but why not? Its going to help my flow anyway. Is around 800gph turnover too much for a 60 gal?

Personally I would not aim to run it at 100%.

First, the listed flow rating (300GPH, 600GPH, 800GPH, etc) is not, in my experience, the real-world flow number. It's based on the theoretic flow output of the U-tube and bulkhead. Actual flow will be less. My overflow is rated for 300GPH, but I can't put anywhere near that flow through it. I tried. Second, if anything were to clog the tube or reduce flow, you'd have a big problem. When my nutrients go up and algae begins to grow in the tube, flow starts to go down. I can tell because the level in my sump goes down and the water level in my tank rises. After I clean the tube, my sump level returns to normal.

Just put a valve on your return line so you can tweak how much flow is going to the tank. You'll be able to dial in a good stable number.

sde1500 · Jul 18, 2017

chipmunkofdoom2 said:
Personally I would not aim to run it at 100%.

First, the listed flow rating (300GPH, 600GPH, 800GPH, etc) is not, in my experience, the real-world flow number. It's based on the theoretic flow output of the U-tube and bulkhead. Actual flow will be less. My overflow is rated for 300GPH, but I can't put anywhere near that flow through it. I tried. Second, if anything were to clog the tube or reduce flow, you'd have a big problem. When my nutrients go up and algae begins to grow in the tube, flow starts to go down. I can tell because the level in my sump goes down and the water level in my tank rises. After I clean the tube, my sump level returns to normal.

Just put a valve on your return line so you can tweak how much flow is going to the tank. You'll be able to dial in a good stable number.

I run a 65 gallon and I'll second this, Pf-800 can in NO WAY do 800GPH. I mean, its not even close. I wish I had gotten the next size up, because I want more turnover in my sump. Oh well. I think the people that make a huge deal about Murphy's law with these things have never actually had one. I am never worried it will over flow, I've stopped and started it so many times with no issues. Cleaning and restarting the U-tube is just part of regular maintenance routine. I do it every other month or so. I'd get the step up from the 800 if I were to order it again.

revaltion131 · Jul 19, 2017

Don't forget to take the pressure loss from the return height into consideration. I forgot to do this when I bought my PF-1100 and my Eheim 1262 operating at 4.5 feet of head doesn't put out enough power at that height, so I get the bubble build up and eventual breaking of suction that chipmunkofdoom2 mentioned. Thankfully, this box has two u-tubes instead of one so I just run with one tube active and my pump at ~60%, regulated by a ball valve on the return line. Aside from dumb mistakes like that, I've had zero issues with the box and as long as you keep the teeth clear of algae and gunk you'll be set!

DH-Reef · Jul 19, 2017

I have been using CPR overflows; CS202 (rate at 1,500gph) on the 90g and CS100 (rated at 800gph) on the 55g (both feeding into a single 70g sump). Both use TOM aqua lifters to remove any air that enters the overflow. Flow is controlled by a Jebao DC Pump and ball valves on the return lines. Obviously, I'd prefer drilled tanks, but just like you, I got in on a budget after being away from the hobby for a few years. These have performed really well and can be made to be pretty silent, with some adjusting of the components that are included with the overflow. Good luck!!

beaslbob · Jul 19, 2017

In case it has not already been mentioned, the way an overflow works is that whatever is being pumped into the upper container, "overflows" down the drain to the lower containers. Not the max overflow value. If the overflow is capable ir returning say 850 gallons per hour, but the display is only being pumped say 100 gallons per hour, the overflow will drain 100 gallons per hour.

For what It's worth you can make a hob overflow with $20 worth of pvc pipe. It does need provisions for priming the water trap (u portion), and it's best to have something at the hob part to suck out the air. I just use a maxijet powerhead with the "bubbler" attached to the hob part of the overflow. With the U primed, the in tank below the water line, the powerhead will suck out the air in 30-60 seconds reestablishing the siphon.

Here is a schematic, use you imagination, and I do have pictures on line, or you can google pvc overflow.