Honest opinions only

[Tamberav]

65 gallons is the limit, for me, on Red Sea tank stands without reinforcement

I would put at least a front and back extruded aluminum under the the stand top. And like a 1.5x3 extrusion. Epoxied and screwed in place is how I would do it

The Red Sea skimmers are made with extruded plastics, and not acrylic. Which bothers my aesthetic and quality sense

I have two Red Seas tanks, the 170 scratches when I breathe on it. It's mostly from magnetic frag racks tho, my fault. I hate scratches. The scratches can be polished out of glass, but the process is miserable and unsafe

I have not used their mat rollers filters, just their roller filter material, seems satisfactory to me

I put 1/2" neoprene between the stand and the tank on mine. The stand comes with that inside

I would reinforce all of the joints and screw holes of that stand with marine epoxy before filling. Even I would even consider using an AluFab stand, and toss the Red Sea stand

I would replace the gate valve on the drain before filling with water.

Honest, no lies detected

The old Red Sea valve was such trash!! Charge so much and put that crap in it lol

 

[BeanAnimal]

Perhaps you should alert the other 10s of thousands of Red Sea tank owners around the world that are currently in service? You are obviously a well informed tank expert.

1 - these particular tanks have a highly reported failure rate that far exceeds public reports of any other brand over the last 5 decades (combined even). Anecdotal, the public record is what it is.

2 - RedSea by their own action admitted to a design flaw in this generation of tanks or stands and released retrofits for these systems as well as simultaneously discontinuing them out for a newer design.

3 - The OP filled it with water and notices bubbles in the seam, a clear indicator of possible seam failure and a commonality among those systems that have failed.

Thee back handed insults or uncalled for and unbecoming and have no place here.

 

[BeanAnimal]

As well, even though these were meant as back handed barbs, I will respond as if they were serious statements.

Perhaps you should alert the other 10s of thousands of Red Sea tank owners around the world that are currently in service?

I am not sure if it is thousands, 10s of thousands or 100s of thousands. But if the publicly reported failure rates are any indication of the actual failure rate then a recall or public notice by RS would certainly be the "right thing" to do. Given the circumstances and (lack) of lemon and other laws in this space and the type of company (foreign investment group) I would not ever expect that to happen.

So the best that any of us can do is offer opinion or advice based on our observation of the information available, especially when asked.

You are obviously a well informed tank expert.

Thank you and yes, as a matter of fact I am, but one does not have to be an expert or understand the engineering or defining equations to make an informed observation regarding the failures mentioned here.

The vast majority of reports follow a pattern.
They are almost universally the front middle seam or front side seam and rarely the back. Seams get bubbles in them and then delaminate. It is rarely a break or crack.

The front glass overhangs and is unsupported. The back and sides are fully supported. The stand also does not have adequate middle support (the retrofit attempted to address this).


So from basic physics class that we all took in high school or college:
The front of the tank wants to sag into the stand (gravity) while the water pushes outward. Because the back and sides are supported the bulk of this stress is on the front. The glass is far more rigid than the silicone seams and therefore take all of the stress of the tank wanting to deform (buckle) and conform to the sagging stand.

I will not guess what the safety factor is/was and have no intention of doing the math or calculating seam stress as it relates to deflection. I will not guess if this is just bad engineer or bad silicone, or bad QC or just one or two bad builders in the workflow. I will simply say that the instances of reported publicly reported failures are high and they almost all follow the same pattern.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Perhaps you should alert the other 10s of thousands of Red Sea tank owners around the world that are currently in service? You are obviously a well informed tank expert.

I don't think I need to - there are hoards of them already trying to offload their tanks 2nd hand on marketplace. Word is out on the RS tank debacle.

 

[Northern Flicker]

The old Red Sea valve was such trash!! Charge so much and put that crap in it lol

That valve is part of the Red Sea ecosystem sir, how dare you!

I am shocked RS hasn't switched to some proprietary plumbing ID/ODs just to lock people in. I shouldn't give them ideas!

 

[Tamberav]

@BeanAnimal

Not related to this thread but I sent you a PM regarding a question. Not sure if you have the answer for me but maybe?

 

[Lavey29]

I don't think I need to - there are hoards of them already trying to offload their tanks 2nd hand on marketplace. Word is out on the RS tank debacle.

Strange they still outsell every other tank manufacturers by a large margin though huh across the entire globe. Wonder why that is with a defective product?

 

[Northern Flicker]

Strange they still outsell every other tank manufacturers by a large margin though huh across the entire globe. Wonder why that is with a defective product?

I think there are a lot of impulse buyers. They look pretty, but they are overpriced mediocrity or worse when you consider the leaks.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Strange they still outsell every other tank manufacturers by a large margin though huh across the entire globe. Wonder why that is with a defective product?

Effective marketing, product aesthetics, market saturation, brand awareness, wholesale pricing and positioning, consumer ignorance, etc.

A brand's market penetration and market share don't always (usually don't) equate to the brand's quality or ethics. There is nothing "strange" about it.

Moreover, the bigger and more organized the brand the more effective they can be at combating negative press or opinion. Marketing is a science, some brands (regardless of quality) do it far better than others.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That valve is part of the Red Sea ecosystem sir, how dare you!

I am shocked RS hasn't switched to some proprietary plumbing ID/ODs just to lock people in. I shouldn't give them ideas!

You mean the valve that controls the siphon standpipe of my overflow design... that they universally incorporated into their tanks and never even bothered to give me credit for?

 

[Tamberav]

You mean the valve that controls the siphon standpipe of overflow design... that they universally incorporated into their tanks and never even bothered to give me credit for?

Ya that sucks, they used a crappy valve for it instead of a quality gate valve. At least it never acted like any gate valve I used.

 

[OrionN]

65 gal tank is small and unlikely to have problem. I would get it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

65 gal tank is small and unlikely to have problem. I would get it.

He already got it... put water in it and the seam has delimitation bubbles...

To that end, these are the very tanks with are being reported as failing.

 

[Tamberav]

He already got it... put water in it and the seam has delimitation bubbles...

To that end, these are the very tanks with are being reported as failing.

Sorry, I know I am obnoxious right now. Can you check your PM one more time, then I'll stop bothering you.

 

[Solo McReefer]

never even bothered to give me credit for

Well I, for one, known it's yours

Pretty sure many others know it too

 

[Solo McReefer]

65 gal tank is small and unlikely to have problem. I would get it.

I wouldn’t, if it has bubbles in the silicone

 

[Lavey29]

I think there are a lot of impulse buyers. They look pretty, but they are overpriced mediocrity or worse when you consider the leaks.

Yes, sure, that makes sense but what is the percentage of failures considering the 10s of thousands of tanks sold and in service currently? How does that failure rate compare to other manufacturers? I've seen lots of other tanks mentioned also with failures so really would like to know how they all match up. Of course you are not counting previously owned tanks in your opinion right because like buying a used car, sometimes it's great, sometimes not. How do you factor owner negligence into your opinion? My LFS told me seam failures occur because people blast their powerheads against the sidewalls with way to much force. This certainly makes sense to me and may be a contributing factor to right?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes, sure, that makes sense but what is the percentage of failures considering the 10s of thousands of tanks sold and in service currently?

Nobody but the manufacter can provide that information, and they are unlikely to do so unless compelled by law or a marketing

We don't know if there are hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of tanks sold. We don't know if the affected tanks are all from one or two assemblers, batch runs, clamping tables, or just random over a several year period.

All we can do is draw logical conclusions based on facts and information that we do know.

How does that failure rate compare to other manufacturers? I've seen lots of other tanks mentioned also with failures so really would like to know how they all match up

We don't see reports of other brand failures with anywhere near this frequency or regularity or that follow a pattern.

We can apply basic statistical probability and principles like Occam's Razor.

We roughly know the size of the aquarium hobby (salt and fresh) we know roughly how many aquariums there are worldwide. We know roughly how long people keep them, etc. We know over the last 40 years that there are several large manufacturers, some still dominant in the market. We know that some of these sell coast-to-coast in high volume big-box pet stores. We know that these systems are many times more expensive that others and therefore sales volume compared to big box stores will be many times less. We know that there are currently a dozen or more manufacturers that build systems 50 gallons or larger.

We don't see the same rate of reported tanks form any single one of those companies currently or historically even all combined. The closet thing in my memory in 40 years of reefing was the Oceanic bow-front problems and that was minuscule compared to this.

. Of course you are not counting previously owned tanks in your opinion right because like buying a used car, sometimes it's great, sometimes not.

That makes absolutely no difference. A Pinto's gas tank was prone to rear-end explosion regardless if it was new or used. Toyota ball joint failures were owner agnostic, etc. Moreover, RedSea tanks are not the only tanks that change hands. All brands do and as with the basic understandings above, there are countless 50 gallon and above tanks in the world that are decades old and still in service through two or more owners. If you are going to apply logic, you must apply it evenly.

How do you factor owner negligence into your opinion?

Easily. RedSea owners do not appear to be any different or more negligent than other tank owners. If it was negligence to blame then we would see similar negligence failures across the market. Likewise, those statistically anomalous negligent RedSea owners would have a higher incidence of failure of other items as well.. lights, pumps, etc. We don't see that. Again, if you are going to apply logic, you must apply it evenly.

My LFS told me seam failures occur because people blast their powerheads against the sidewalls with way to much force. This certainly makes sense to me and may be a contributing factor to right?

No it does not makes sense to me whatsoever, the math does not work by any stretch of the imagination and I think whoever told you that from your LFS is s (frankly) uninformed and/or has a vested interest in not tarnishing the brand they sell.

If you want to argue sinusoidal wave makers that create a sloshing standing wave can damage tanks, I would absolutely agree. Back to Occam's Razor and what we know. I have not seen a single report of a person indicating that they were generating standing waves and sloshing several inches of water back and forth as a mass.

 

[BiggestE22]

Hi guys, I need everyone’s honest and brutal opinions. Just hit me with facts without sugar coating anything please.

I ran into a family selling their fish tank. I think it was a deal of a lifetime but please, what do you guys think? They sold me a Red sea xl300 65 gallon tank with Red Sea stand. 15 gallon sump, all plumbing, Red Sea Skimmer, Red sea Reef mat, Red Sea ATO, Red Sea return pump, Red sea Dual controller, half bucket of salt, Red sea screen, Heater, half bottles of Red sea Calcium and other chemicals, all this for $600.

Tank has minor scratches with no leaks, does need cleaning. Stand looks new, all electronics are working.


What are the bad things about these tanks for all experienced reefers.


Please and thank you!

Nothing for 600. If it’s a newer generation it should last.

 

[bossman818]

So I did something crazy. I put a piece of 1 inch wood under tank to support the whole tank especially front glass. I keep being told the front glass is the issue. It looks ugly at the moment but if this holds, I will make it flush to glass and put some type of decorative molding. I am adding 15 gallons of water a day and letting it sit to see anything goes wrong. I’m crossing my fingers. Any thoughts? I got a quote for a custom water box tank but it’s out of my budget ($1500). I really want to make this work. I don’t like giving up lol.