How bad is my electrical situation?

[thatmanMIKEson]

Frugal reefer . So if you were setting up a dedicated plug from scratch if all the walls were exposed all the way to the box , what would you use . Interesting topic !

I'll answer.... use 12awg romex and a 20a dedicated circuit, call it done.

I wouldn't use a gfci receptacle or breaker but that's a decision you need to make as it's not required.

 

[theatrus]

Frugal reefer . So if you were setting up a dedicated plug from scratch if all the walls were exposed all the way to the box , what would you use . Interesting topic !

Depends on the size of tank. Also how much I’m running from different power sources. I’d consider running two 240V legs, each GFCI, to an L6-20 variety outlet and PDU with NEMA 6-15 outlets. All DC pumps have power bricks that support 240V. LEDs as well. Efficiency at 240V is often higher as well. Just buy EU market heaters. Large chillers are already 240V.

Or, as most things are DC powered now (except heaters and chillers), 2+ main power supplies (48V) feeding into ideal-diode-OR controllers, and DC/DC converters for 36V or 24V equipment. More copper involved, but less cheap junky power bricks. Bonus points if you do load shedding at certain times of day to a 48V battery bank (for solar installs or just with ToU pricing).

 

[Paul B]

I added a 25amp breaker to my box, dedicated only for pump and wave makers, skimmer etc.

A qualified electrician did the work.

He is not as qualified as you think. Mike is correct and is probably better looking than I am.

You can not buy, in this country and probably anywhere else a 25 amp "2" prong 120 volt receptacle.

I'm old and retired 20 years so maybe some Jiboni makes them now. But if they do, it is still illegal to install one.

I am also a Journeyman Master electrician 50 years, qualified from everything from putting batteries in flashlights to wiring nuclear submarines on Mars. But I am probably also senile so my opinion may not carry much weight.

 

[jason2459]

If a GFCI at minimum isn't used then I suggest getting a titanium grounding probe.

I personally highly recommend a GFCI/CAFCI to help protect better yourself, your family, potentially your aquarium, and your home/office.

 

[theatrus]

He is not as qualified as you think. Mike is correct and is probably better looking than I am.

You can not buy, in this country and probably anywhere else a 25 amp "2" prong 120 volt receptacle.

I'm old and retired 20 years so maybe some Jiboni makes them now. But if they do, it is still illegal to install one.

I am also a Journeyman Master electrician 50 years, qualified from everything from putting batteries in flashlights to wiring nuclear submarines on Mars. But I am probably also senile so my opinion may not carry much weight.

You can buy 5-30 outlets (which of course are three prong and carry a ground), but a 25A breaker behind it would be suspect. Honestly extremely unusual though - I’d rather just have multiple 15A circuits instead.

 

[Paul B]

You can buy 5-30 outlets (which of course are three prong and carry a ground), but a 25A breaker behind it would be suspect. Honestly extremely unusual though - I’d rather just have multiple 15A circuits instead.

Yes, I meant 3 prong outlet. (I'm old and it is even hard to find a 2 prong outlet except on a lamp)

There is no place in a house where you can legally install a 25 amp outlet on a "120" volt single phase circuit. Of course you can install a 220 or 208 volt outlet almost anywhere. In New York anyway. I don't know what they do in California except watch whales and swim with wet suits.

 

[JoJosReef]

I don't know what they do in California except watch whales and swim with wet suits.

Yes, that is what we do. Me, @Lbrdsoxfan and 40 million others (and falling!) all on the beach every weekend looking for little spouts of water on the ocean. Not a single electrically competent one among us, but we have our whales. I hear @Reefer Reboot even gets wet! Not me, though. I need Caribbean or Indian Ocean water to go past my ankles. And I prefer turtles over dumb dolphins anyways.

 

[CoralB]

I'll answer.... use 12awg romex and a 20a dedicated circuit, call it done.

I wouldn't use a gfci receptacle or breaker but that's a decision you need to make as it's not required.

Thank you for answering my question . I do understand not having a gfci receptacle but your saying not to use one at the breaker as well ? . I’m thinking seriously about running a dedicated line for my tank going thru the attic and fishing down through the wall . We loose power periodically and experience surges from time to time and with that being said are you saying no gfci because it would trip after surges ??

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Thank you for answering my question . I do understand not having a gfci receptacle but your saying not to use one at the breaker as well ? . I’m thinking seriously about running a dedicated line for my tank going thru the attic and fishing down through the wall . We loose power periodically and experience surges from time to time and with that being said are you saying no gfci because it would trip after surges ??

I can tell you I have more nuisance trips with gfci receptacles than breakers, but the breakers still nuisance trip without circuit damage or failure. the only reason we install them is because they are to be installed to code, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't install them in some places they are required.

that being said a fish tank does not require one and I've never put one on any of my aquariums because I am careful with my electric, I don't have receptacles behind or under tanks, I make sure my equipment is from America and UL listed and in good condition. I make sure all my electric and grounding is sound and correct.

that's my opinion and installing a gfci on your tanks life support should be your choice and what you're comfortable with.

 

[Paul B]

Mike, for some stupid reason (probably code) I live in a new house and they installed GFIs everyplace. I removed most of them, especially outside because if you put up Christmas lights, they are a horror.
I do have them on most but not all of my tank systems. Things that are underwater like pumps and heaters.

Of course they have to be in your kitchen and bathroom especially if you use a hair drier, but I don't even remember what those are.
Sometimes, they are just more trouble than they are worth.

 

[The_Paradox]

Those sound more like AFCIs.

 

[theatrus]

Those sound more like AFCIs.

Yeah, modern construction is AFCI on most circuits. Possibly just combo AFCI+GFCI.

I’d rather take some nuisance tripping equipment out or find the root cause of the trips. These are good safety devices to keep.

 

[JoJosReef]

Grats everyone! We made the trending topic of the week newsletter! Who knew there was so much fire and passion in electrical circuitry in the reefing hobby! Well, hopefully no fire. I guess that's the whole point.

 

[jason2459]

FWIW, I don't recall ever having a false trip on my fish tank GFCI/CAFCI circuits or receptacles. For the plug in kind I have. I have also had a titanium heater short out on me and trip the GFCI as it should.

 

[Low Tech Reefer]

having a residential wall outlet on a 25amp breaker is not permitted or advised if it is a normal 20amp circuit, it is supplied with 12guage wire which has the allowable ampacity of 20amps NOT 25a, putting in a larger breaker is not the correct way to accomplish this, contacting a qualified electrician is.

I was hoping someone was going to bring this up. Not to mention most branch circuits in a home (not the kitchen though) are on a 15 amp circuit. Upsizing the breaker and not the branch wiring as well is a recipe for an electrical fire as the wiring will now act like a fuse and melt before the breaker trips because it has a higher ampacity than the connected circuit.

 

[crahan]

We are in a pretty basic ranch house and had an electrician run four 15amp breaker circuits from the main box to the fish stuff wall for $500. Over the attic and down the wall. I provided the breakers and Romax.

8 switch on/off power center plugged into each circuit.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Post in thread 'Help: Apex COR 20 randomly tripping GFCI' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-apex-cor-20-randomly-tripping-gfci.1007123/post-11734190

gfci random trips on reef tanks hmm, no thank you!

this was something I was thinking about the other day when I was installing a replacement oil/water separator for the draw bridge sump, they were having an issue with the gfci tripping every few months they replaced the recpticle several times and the wiring and pump were in good working condition. in order to get around needing a gfci, I hard wired the pump to the disconnect eliminating the cord end and eliminating the need for a gfci. same pump same area, no longer requires gfci.

 

[jason2459]

May have been working but doesn't mean there wasn't a stray. Bad receptacles and breakers do happen. As with any kind of equipment. But after multiple replacements I'd look to replace the other side and not hide the problem.

 

[jason2459]

And to add that eventually the breaker or receptacle may need replacement. There's a reason why there's a test button on there. I'd rather it fail to off then on. A good reason to have at least two circuits with life support spread across them.

Opposite with surge protectors though and need to monitor the light that it's still working. However, I'd rather those fail to on then off. Some fail off. And some have an alarm which is helpful if your not looking at the light every day.

A surge protector has a much shorter life span expectancy usually as they can be getting hit from surges from inside and outside the home at any time.

 

[jason2459]

And another to add and repeat. If you don't have at least a GFCI of some type and do not want one I recommend getting a titanium grounding probe.