How do I lower PO4 without a reactor?

[sarcophytonIndy]

I do want to buy snails, but I also want to get to the root of the problem. Plus Everytime I buy snails they always die pretty quick. I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm starving them to death. I've never fed my snails before.

Temp? I used to run my tank around 80 figuring higher temp would equal more growth. Now I am running it at 77 and my CUC has been much hardier. Maybe a coincidence as the tank is also more mature, but I do think dropping the temp a few degrees has helped.

 

[Dan_P]

I do want to buy snails, but I also want to get to the root of the problem. Plus Everytime I buy snails they always die pretty quick. I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm starving them to death. I've never fed my snails before.

I will throw out a controversial idea

It is a waste of time looking for the root cause of algae growth

Why do I think this? Anything done to support the growth of coral will likely benefit algae growth. The difference in water parameters that discourages algae growth and that which promotes coral growth are too close to be reliably maintained. Moreover, has anyone actually been able to, under controlled conditions, turn algae growth off by tweaking water parameters and then turn algae growth on again by retweaking the parameters? I think the answer is “never seen the demonstration”. And the reason is likely to be that it takes more then small changes to nitrate and phosphate concentrations to affect algae growth.

Buy a bunch of snails and enjoy your algae free aquarium, but be prepared to feed them or move them to a tank with algae when your system becomes spotless. I admit feeling a little odd spending money to keep snails alive Maybe I need a “snail lover” T-shirt.

 

[Dan_P]

Temp? I used to run my tank around 80 figuring higher temp would equal more growth. Now I am running it at 77 and my CUC has been much hardier. Maybe a coincidence as the tank is also more mature, but I do think dropping the temp a few degrees has helped.

Thanks! I wanted to ask that very question! Can temperature significantLy affect snail appetite and longevity.

 

[Dan_P]

This. Lowering you numbers is a risk and doesn't explain why your CUC died.

My first thought with dead snail is dinos. This would also explain the ongoing algae battle. Dropping NO3 and PO4 if those are dinos would make things worse.


1. Urgent- rule out dinos (get a cheap microscope if you dont have on a post a pic of that stuff on you sand bed in the dino thread. They also have a coffee filter method to confirm if it is dinos - but not species specific.


2. Look up the rip clean/sand bed rinse thread. You pull the rocks out, scrub them, spray them with hydrogen peroixde rinse and return. You remove the sand bed rinse until clean and return. But don't do these until you first rule out dinos

3. Whether or not it's dinos, focus on your microfauana, phyto& zoo plankton, bacteria, pods, worms, coraline. these are IMO are part of the CUC. Often, trying to rid a tank of algae can throw these out of balance and make the algae problem worse and even terrible by opening the door for dinos to take over

Funny thing. You mentioned rip cleaning and made me remember something.

My substrate is getting cleaner now that the algae is gone. I wonder what role the snails played. I did examine the substrate and there was filamentous algae present wherever it looked brown, the color coming from diatoms and dinoflagellates. Did the snail eat the algae in the sand or did it just physically disrupt it? I am overdue in taking another look at the sand to see what is living on the grains these days.

 

[Cwentz758]

I dip a rip clean. 8 hours of fun. Tank looked great for about 10 days then the brown sand came back.

 

[NS Mike D]

I dip a rip clean. 8 hours of fun. Tank looked great for about 10 days then the brown sand came back.

When I mention rip clean, I am talking about the rocks and getting the algae that has taking a strong hold on it our of the tank to give your clean up crew and other steps to keep algae off a jump start. Either scrubbing rocks clean in the tank or using methods to kill the algae in the tank leave the problem in that tank and make it very difficult to over come.

As for the brown sand and, if it's dinos, a rip clean is not likely to work and if its diatoms, the silica had o be addressed.

Rip clean/sand bed rinse in themselves are excellent preventive steps for smaller tanks. If problems are more serve, then other steps are often required in conjunction with that method (and of course could make a dino problem worse).

 

[GCL]

I have the same tank. I added a HOB refugium with Chaeto which helped with nutrient control. It’s the medium CPR and as soon as I added it and got the Chaeto going I noticed things just seemed to go better. After going on vacation I had some algae issues and used Vibrant and Flux RX which took care of the problem. I still have a little hair algae but it’s minimal. Using the Flux RX took out the bryopsis which had gotten pretty bad. It worked extremely fast and totally eliminated the issue.

 

[GCL]

I also highly recommend getting a diverse clean up crew. Tuxedo urchins are great for algae and I like trochus snails as well

 

[billwill]

diverse clean up crew and snails or starfish that stir that sand bed. Your numbers are nothing alarming, and I know SPS gods running like that with spectacular tanks. How about your water? When was last time RO filter was replaced? There are so many things in our water/systems that aren't picked up by anything we test with.

 

[saullman]

Having some algae is part of having an aquarium, a healthy tank needs some nitrate and phosphate else you open yourself up to other issues. How long have you been without a cuc? Is it possible that the algae is building at a normal rate but you don't have anything to keep it back.

What snails do you normally buy? In my opinion turbo snails will eat everything super quick but have a reputation for pushing stuff over and being super sensitive. I always use trochus snails, I swear they are indistructable I once found one on the outside of my tank near my floor. Must have been out for hours but it's still going well in my tank.

My small tank currently has a phosphate level of .1 and it's not affecting any of the livestock and the snails are happily eating away. Also I've never fed snails in any of my tank s

I have been without a CUC for several months now. I think a little algae build up is normal, but mine is not. If I let mine go, it gets crazy. By the way the pics look it seems like I don't take care of the tank, but I do. I do water changes once a month. I blow the rocks off every few days. Clean skimmer, pumps, powerheads, etc.

Snails: I used to buy the Mexicans, but gave up on them because they would fall upside down and the next thing I know I found find my fish eating them. So then I tried trochus snails. Lasted a little longer (maybe a month vs days) but they too would eventually die. Literally the only snails that stay alive are my 2 nassarius snails that live in the sandbed.

 

[saullman]

Your snails are dying for a reason so part of fixing your problem is going to be figuring out why. You need a clean up crew. Products like rowa and GFO can rapidly drop your phos. I use rowa in my 60 cube and use 2 tsp. Keeps mine at .03. Don’t just throw in a bunch and bottom out your phos. You’ll cause worse problems. Go slow. My advice is get your nutrients in check to slow/stop algae growth. Get your water parameters double checked and a cleanup crew to mow down what left or what comes back down the line.

I agree with what your saying. I just put in 2 tsp 2 days ago. Now I will wait it out. In general, how long does it take for rowaphos to start lowering my PO4? ( days or weeks)? And how long should it stay in my tank?

Are you saying:
1- get my water parameters in line first
2- then replenish my CUC last.

 

[saullman]

I also highly recommend getting a diverse clean up crew. Tuxedo urchins are great for algae and I like trochus snails as well

I'm all for getting a diverse CUC, but it's gets old when you keep buying, and buying, and buying and things just keep dying, and dying, and dying etc. It's allot of wasted money that I don't have. I don't know if it's something in my tank like water parameters that is killing them or maybe it's my acclimation method. I've tried to just temp acclimate and I've also tried the slow drip method before. Between the 2, I've had more success with the slow drip method. I was told that inverts are more sensitive to parameter changes than fish so to do a slow drip. I don't have a clue.

 

[SCReef'n]

I agree with what your saying. I just put in 2 tsp 2 days ago. Now I will wait it out. In general, how long does it take for rowaphos to start lowering my PO4? ( days or weeks)? And how long should it stay in my tank?

Are you saying:
1- get my water parameters in line first
2- then replenish my CUC last.

i don’t remember if you said how you were checking phos. But if you have a HannaULR checker. You should see improved phos numbers in 24-48 hours. Ih
Other tests may not be sensitive to notice but I’d check it now.
yes like you said it sucks buying stuff just to watch it die. So get your parameters straight then buy cuc.

 

[saullman]

diverse clean up crew and snails or starfish that stir that sand bed. Your numbers are nothing alarming, and I know SPS gods running like that with spectacular tanks. How about your water? When was last time RO filter was replaced? There are so many things in our water/systems that aren't picked up by anything we test with.

My RO filter has never been replaced because I don't have one. Unfortunately, I have to do it the old school way. Drive to my lfs which lucky for me is WWC and lug 5 gal jugs back to my house an hour away. I am trusting that their water quality (fresh and salt are ok). Maybe that's my problem.

 

[saullman]

i don’t remember if you said how you were checking phos. But if you have a HannaULR checker. You should see improved phos numbers in 24-48 hours. Ih
Other tests may not be sensitive to notice but I’d check it now.
yes like you said it sucks buying stuff just to watch it die. So get your parameters straight then buy cuc.

I just bought a Hanna phos URL a few weeks ago.
And thank you for your advice. It seems to be in line with what my lfs told me.

 

[SCReef'n]

can you post your other parameters if you haven’t already. I’m more concerned with the inverts dying than the algae at this point. WWCis close so have you talked to them about your issues? Yes inverts are very sensitive to chemistry changes What corals and fish do you have?

 

[saullman]

Temp? I used to run my tank around 80 figuring higher temp would equal more growth. Now I am running it at 77 and my CUC has been much hardier. Maybe a coincidence as the tank is also more mature, but I do think dropping the temp a few degrees has helped.

 

[saullman]

can you post your other parameters if you haven’t already. I’m more concerned with the inverts dying than the algae at this point. WWCis close so have you talked to them about your issues? Yes inverts are very sensitive to chemistry changes What corals and fish do you have?

Here are my most recent parameters. I need to retest them again. It's been a month. Also, the calcium isn't accurate because I had a bad test kit. I just replaced the kit so now I can retest.

On top of everything else, my rocks have recently turned white so I found out that I need to start dosing 2 part. I have a separate thread for that. I haven't started dosing yet because I am waiting on the calcium chloride to arrive. Hopefully this week.

In terms of talking to WWC about my issue, to be honest, I briefly talked to them but all in all I don't feel very comfortable talking to them about my tank problems. I feel like their operation is so big that they just want to get you in and out of the store unless you have deep pockets which I don't. I go to WWC for water and a few corals here and there, but that's it. I have another lfs to I go to as well. Mom and Pop shop, but the owner Bruce is real nice and takes the time to actually talk and listen. That's where I usually get my fish and inverts. His advice about getting my parameters in check first lined up with what you just told me.

In terms of corals and fish. I have somehow managed to kill almost all of my corals. I only have 2 left. A Pandora paly (1st Coral I ever bought) and a Duncan. That's it.
Fish: I have 4. They all seem to be doing well.
1- red fish
2- clown
3- yellow corris wrasse
4- yellow watchman goby (new)

 

[SCReef'n]

Other than the calcium your parameters look in line. The nutrient levels shouldn’t be killing animals, inverts included. I suspect something else is wrong. Contaminants maybe. If possible and icp test could help you identify something wrong. Otherwise the. The next thing I’d do is a large 50%+ water change. But that’s only as good butt the source water which is from WWc and should be fine but you never know. Can you test tds?

 

[saullman]

Other than the calcium your parameters look in line. The nutrient levels shouldn’t be killing animals, inverts included. I suspect something else is wrong. Contaminants maybe. If possible and icp test could help you identify something wrong. Otherwise the. The next thing I’d do is a large 50%+ water change. But that’s only as good butt the source water which is from WWc and should be fine but you never know. Can you test tds?

So I am due for a water change anyway. My normal WC is to replace 10 gal at a time. I have a 45 gal JBJ, but probably only 35 gal because I have allot of rock. So how much saltwater should I replace? Another problem is going to be that I only have 3 saltwater jugs.

Right now I don't have a way to test tds, but I guess I could buy a tds meter. I found one on Amazon for like $13 or $14.