How do YOU protect against an ATO dump
- Thread starter djbetterly
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I've got 3 float switches setup on the apex breakout box. First float switch is just a low ATO notification (alerts me when my ATO container is down to 2 gallons). Low_Sump switch will shut down return pump, skimmers and heaters. High_Sump will shut down skimmer and ATO.
I had a custom ATO container made that holds 9 gallons. I only put 4-5 gallons in it at a time. I got it made this size so when we go out of town for a week I'm solely relying on it to run flawlessly! Haha but when we are home I'll monitor it.
I am using the Tunze 3155 and I make it a point to take my turkey baster and spray water on the sensor a couple times a week. It is imperative that the sensor stays clean and free of obstructions.
I had a custom ATO container made that holds 9 gallons. I only put 4-5 gallons in it at a time. I got it made this size so when we go out of town for a week I'm solely relying on it to run flawlessly! Haha but when we are home I'll monitor it.
I am using the Tunze 3155 and I make it a point to take my turkey baster and spray water on the sensor a couple times a week. It is imperative that the sensor stays clean and free of obstructions.
Eric83
Community Member
I have Apex and tunze ATO. First I check the optical eye and float on the tunze weekly, clean when needed.
Apex is setup to cut power if a leak dectors goes off, if salinity goes low, if sump high goes off. Also tied to return pump, if return pump is off ATO is off. Sump low alarm (lower than ATO sensor) turns off return pump.
Also have a float in the ATO container to tell me when it's getting low
Apex is setup to cut power if a leak dectors goes off, if salinity goes low, if sump high goes off. Also tied to return pump, if return pump is off ATO is off. Sump low alarm (lower than ATO sensor) turns off return pump.
Also have a float in the ATO container to tell me when it's getting low
Waterjockey
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I use a single switch for my ato.
My ato code looks like this
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If SmpNmL CLOSED Then ON
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Min Time 002:00 Then OFF
If SmpNmL OPEN Then OFF
If SmpHi OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet ATOLATCH = ON Then OFF
Virtual Outlet ATOLATCH
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet ATO_RODI = ON Then ON
Defer 020:00 Then ON
So when the switch SmpNmL closes (calls for water) it waits one minute, then starts filling. It will fill for a minimum of 2 minutes. When the same switch (SmpNmL) opens, it shuts off
ATOLATCH is a timer. If my ATO doesn't shut off within 20 minutes (it takes about 15 min to top up), it locks the ato off, sends me an alarm, and won't turn back until I manually reset ATOLATCH. The latch assumes a stuck float switch, and it's failed to shut the ato off in a reasonable time.
I also wire all my float switches in parallel. That way even if one switch fails, the other should catch it. Check each switch every week during tank maintenance.
My ato code looks like this
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If SmpNmL CLOSED Then ON
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Min Time 002:00 Then OFF
If SmpNmL OPEN Then OFF
If SmpHi OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet ATOLATCH = ON Then OFF
Virtual Outlet ATOLATCH
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet ATO_RODI = ON Then ON
Defer 020:00 Then ON
So when the switch SmpNmL closes (calls for water) it waits one minute, then starts filling. It will fill for a minimum of 2 minutes. When the same switch (SmpNmL) opens, it shuts off
ATOLATCH is a timer. If my ATO doesn't shut off within 20 minutes (it takes about 15 min to top up), it locks the ato off, sends me an alarm, and won't turn back until I manually reset ATOLATCH. The latch assumes a stuck float switch, and it's failed to shut the ato off in a reasonable time.
I also wire all my float switches in parallel. That way even if one switch fails, the other should catch it. Check each switch every week during tank maintenance.
Flippers4pups
Fins up since 1993
I use an autotopoff.com unit. Double with bracket. I have used them for years with no problems whatsoever. Extremely reliable.
http://autotopoff.com/Double/index.html
http://autotopoff.com/Double/index.html
FranklinDattein
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I use a DOSEmate computer, and I programmed it to use a number of fail safes:
- Float and optical switches by default.
- Max time for the ato pump to run, before it locks and alerts.
- leak and salinity sensor
- Sump is dimensioned to handle nearly the whole volume in the ato reservoir.
- Low level switch in the ato reservoir(not exactly a protection)
A simpler way to add redundancy is to add a float valve to the ato output, slightly above the float switch.
- Float and optical switches by default.
- Max time for the ato pump to run, before it locks and alerts.
- leak and salinity sensor
- Sump is dimensioned to handle nearly the whole volume in the ato reservoir.
- Low level switch in the ato reservoir(not exactly a protection)
A simpler way to add redundancy is to add a float valve to the ato output, slightly above the float switch.
Jerel
Active Member
Why would one purchase a Tunze Osmolator if they already have an aquarium controller...
billwill
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I have a triple whammy system. I have a manual float valve, a solenoid upstream, a float switch, and a timer.
Solenoid valve runs off relay from float switch (google autotopoff.com). Relay that powers solenoid is on a timer for 10 minutes three times a day. Manual float valve simply opens when water is low. Been working perfect for about seven years for me. I run direct ro/di to my sump this way.
Solenoid valve runs off relay from float switch (google autotopoff.com). Relay that powers solenoid is on a timer for 10 minutes three times a day. Manual float valve simply opens when water is low. Been working perfect for about seven years for me. I run direct ro/di to my sump this way.
tristanfish
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Sorry to hear about your trouble. I also just use a max run timer that's set for 2 seconds longer than a top off normally takes. If it ever goes over it shuts off the ATO outlet until I reset it.
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IMO, redundancy is key. First, if your RO reservoir is small enough relative to the tank, it can't completely drop your salinity. So, for example, my system is 300g total volume and my RO reservoir is 20g. It's never entirely full so, in the worst case, if the ATO drops all of the water into the sump, it'll water down my salinity by less than 7%. That's a drop from 1.025 so to 1.023 or so (less if the reservoir is less full). That shouldn't kill any corals and the fish can handle a much bigger drop.
Second, an ATO that automatically turns off is a must. I've used Tunze Osmolators for years on all my tanks and they are very reliable. (For those above who commented that they clean the sensor several times a week, I've typically gone 3-6 months without cleanings and, sadly, at least a year on some occasions, and they've never failed me. Your maintenance practices are certainly better than mine but I think you can safely go much longer than weekly without cleaning the sensor).
Third, it's a good idea to install a float with a shutoff. I've done this on some, but not all tanks. Apex with a break out box makes this really easy. Just install a very inexpensive float and a few lines of code and forget it. The code is easily found here or on the neptune forum. In my tanks, the floats have never been triggered but it's good peace of mind. Of course, if you don't have a controller, this is much harder to pull off.
Fourth and finally, to spare yourself the wet floor, if possible, it's good to install a drain line in the sump. One of my tanks happens to be near a drain line, so I have a 1/2" bulkhead as high as possible in the sump wall draining to the drain line. On one of the tanks, there was no nearby drain but it was against an outside wall so I did the same thing with the line draining through the wall to the outside garden. If you don't have either a drain or an outside wall, you could, if you have space, have such a drain go to a second sump/tank with an ALD or float valve to alert you if water ever drains into it. The idea is to put an overflow valve high up in your sump so that, in the unlikely event the water level in the sump rises too high, it doesn't overflow.
Realistically, you don't need all of these. Any two of these steps should keep your floors dry. There is a risk that if you use the overflow drain, you can keep your floors dry but a runaway ATO will turn your reef into a freshwater tank so, if you do use the drain, I highly recommend either using an ATO like the Tunze with the built in shutoff, or installing a float valve slightly lower than the drain bulkhead to signal your Apex to kill the power to the ATO. That way, the ATO turns off before the drain comes into play and the drain is really only there for a double-failure where the ATO and float valve fail.
Bottom line is with a little redundancy you can reduce the risk of diluting your saltwater or overflowing your sump to about zero. I've used some variety these approaches on every tank for about 20 years and have yet to have a runaway ATO problem.
Second, an ATO that automatically turns off is a must. I've used Tunze Osmolators for years on all my tanks and they are very reliable. (For those above who commented that they clean the sensor several times a week, I've typically gone 3-6 months without cleanings and, sadly, at least a year on some occasions, and they've never failed me. Your maintenance practices are certainly better than mine but I think you can safely go much longer than weekly without cleaning the sensor).
Third, it's a good idea to install a float with a shutoff. I've done this on some, but not all tanks. Apex with a break out box makes this really easy. Just install a very inexpensive float and a few lines of code and forget it. The code is easily found here or on the neptune forum. In my tanks, the floats have never been triggered but it's good peace of mind. Of course, if you don't have a controller, this is much harder to pull off.
Fourth and finally, to spare yourself the wet floor, if possible, it's good to install a drain line in the sump. One of my tanks happens to be near a drain line, so I have a 1/2" bulkhead as high as possible in the sump wall draining to the drain line. On one of the tanks, there was no nearby drain but it was against an outside wall so I did the same thing with the line draining through the wall to the outside garden. If you don't have either a drain or an outside wall, you could, if you have space, have such a drain go to a second sump/tank with an ALD or float valve to alert you if water ever drains into it. The idea is to put an overflow valve high up in your sump so that, in the unlikely event the water level in the sump rises too high, it doesn't overflow.
Realistically, you don't need all of these. Any two of these steps should keep your floors dry. There is a risk that if you use the overflow drain, you can keep your floors dry but a runaway ATO will turn your reef into a freshwater tank so, if you do use the drain, I highly recommend either using an ATO like the Tunze with the built in shutoff, or installing a float valve slightly lower than the drain bulkhead to signal your Apex to kill the power to the ATO. That way, the ATO turns off before the drain comes into play and the drain is really only there for a double-failure where the ATO and float valve fail.
Bottom line is with a little redundancy you can reduce the risk of diluting your saltwater or overflowing your sump to about zero. I've used some variety these approaches on every tank for about 20 years and have yet to have a runaway ATO problem.
DBR_Reef
Active Member
I like a rodi line strait to the sump with a valve dialed back to just above evap, a float valve, and a solenoid for extra peace of mind. 3 redundancies, less to fail, and no resevior to fill
joeboots82520
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I don't know if this will help but i use a high low switch with relay from autotopoff.com with an aqualifter pump. I figured approximately how much water I evaporate per hour and use a simple OSC coding in the apex. Been running for three years with no issues. Its nice because the switch must be made AND the OSC code must be on for the pump to run and it only runs for 2:30 minutes per hour limiting what can be dumped at a time. here is the code
I have a low tech very solid solution. I have a timer that turns on for just 1 minute every 6 hours. The ATO kicks in and runs it normal 23 seconds then shuts off when everything is fine. If there is a problem and gets stuck the timer kills it after 1 minute. A little bit of extra water is ok and prevents the entire 7 gallons of ATO water being dumped. This simple solution has already saved me twice in the last 2 years.
hawkinsrgk
Valuable Member
I run my ATO for a min and a half every 10 minutes that is connected to a high/low float switch. If both float switches were to fail at the same time it would take a long time to become a problem
