How do you ship saltwater fish?

[LordJoshaeus]

I am planning on keeping and breeding the euryhaline rainbowfish Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis, and I was also planning on selling some of their offspring online. Does shipping saltwater fish differ significantly from shipping freshwater fish? My methodology for freshwater fish is to fast them two days before shipping, then ship them usps priority mail (2-3 day shipping) in double bagged fish bags in an insulated box (currently experimenting with radiant barriers for the insulation). Thanks.

 

[CO2TLEY]

I’ve never shipped any fish. But I’d definitely think you’d want to ship overnight to increase shipping success. Some fish may last 2-3 days but seem very lethargic at that point, and may or may not pull through.

 

[LordJoshaeus]

I’ve never shipped any fish. But I’d definitely think you’d want to ship overnight to increase shipping success. Some fish may last 2-3 days but seem very lethargic at that point, and may or may not pull through.

The shipping time has not been an issue for my freshwater fish...I have shipped dozens and only lost one (which got caught in a crease in the shipping bag...lesson learned). I have also received many freshwater fish shipped priority and have had very few problems...couldn't describe most of them as being lethargic on arrival. I could imagine reef fish not appreciating spending more than a day in the mail, though...I have yet to buy or sell any saltwater fish online, which is why I created this thread.

 

[saltytanked]

lol 2-3 day shipping on sw is almost guaranteed dead… this ain’t freshwata

 

[LordJoshaeus]

lol 2-3 day shipping on sw is almost guaranteed dead… this ain’t freshwata

That is why I asked. Any other differences in shipping protocol?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Basically:

-Fast the fish for 1-2 days prior to shipping (I've seen as long as 3 days prior for large fish)

-Lower the temp to as low as the fish can safely handle

-Put the fish in a bag that's 1/3-1/2 filled with good quality water

-Use pure oxygen to fill the bag

-Secure the bag so it's airtight and watertight

-Add the bag to a styrofoam box

-Wrap hot/cold packs as needed for the trip in material like newspaper and add to the box to maintain a good temp throughout the trip

-Add packing material (like packing peanuts) to keep the bag safe throughout the trip

-Close and secure the styrofoam box; put it in a snug-fitting cardboard box

-Label appropriately

-Ship overnight/express (whatever is the fastest shipping time, go with that)


Some people like to use more insulation material, but it's not usually going to be necessary.

 

[LordJoshaeus]

Basically:

-Fast the fish for 1-2 days prior to shipping (I've seen as long as 3 days prior for large fish)

-Lower the temp to as low as the fish can safely handle

-Put the fish in a bag that's 1/3-1/2 filled with good quality water

-Use pure oxygen to fill the bag

-Secure the bag so it's airtight and watertight

-Add the bag to a styrofoam box

-Wrap hot/cold packs as needed for the trip in material like newspaper and add to the box to maintain a good temp throughout the trip

-Add packing material (like packing peanuts) to keep the bag safe throughout the trip

-Close and secure the styrofoam box; put it in a snug-fitting cardboard box

-Label appropriately

-Ship overnight/express (whatever is the fastest shipping time, go with that)


Some people like to use more insulation material, but it's not usually going to be necessary.

Where does a small scale hobbyist like me get pure oxygen?

 

[Solo McReefer]

Welding store?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Where does a small scale hobbyist like me get pure oxygen?

You can buy it on Amazon in little spray cans - Amazon links are patchy on here lately, but for example:

"3 Pack Large 10-Liter Boost Oxygen Portable Pure Canned Natural Oxygen Canister Bottle for High Altitudes, Athletes, and More, Flavorless…"

Boost Oxygen is the brand; there are others on there. The faster the trip, the less necessary pure oxygen is, but it's a good precaution in case of shipping delays (you can use an air pump to pump room air into the bag too; it's not recommended for long trips though).

 

[LordJoshaeus]

Beyond fasting the fish, what else can you do about ammonia buildup in the bag? In freshwater shipping bags the pH tends to drop, which makes the ammonia less toxic, but I am unsure how much that happens in highly basic seawater. (maybe this is the real reason saltwater fish need such short transit times?)

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Beyond fasting the fish, what else can you do about ammonia buildup in the bag? In freshwater shipping bags the pH tends to drop, which makes the ammonia less toxic, but I am unsure how much that happens in highly basic seawater. (maybe this is the real reason saltwater fish need such short transit times?)

A couple of things - keep the water temps relatively low, and limit the number and size of fish in each bag:

-Lower the temp to as low as the fish can safely handle

To quote:

"The metabolic rate of fish will double for each 18 degree F increase in temperatures and be reduced by half for each 18 degree F decrease in temperature. A reduced metabolic rate will decrease the oxygen consumption, ammonia production and carbon dioxide production. Therefore, it is essential to transport fish as low temperatures."*

"The easiest way to reduce toxic ammonia buildup in transport water is to lower the temperature of the transport water and to stop feeding several days before transporting."*

Slowed ammonia and carbon dioxide production both help to prevent ammonia buildup.


Randy or some of the Chem forum regulars may have more ideas, but - given the level of ammonia needed for acute toxicity in fish** - I doubt more than that is needed for properly stocked transport bags.

*Source:

Transportation of Fish in Bags | MU Extension

Reviewed by Robert A. Pierce IIExtension Fisheries and Wildlife SpecialistReviewed by David BruneProfessor, Plant Sciences and TechnologyL. SwannIllinois-Indiana Sea Grant Program, Purdue University

extension.missouri.edu

**Source:

How toxic is ammonia, really?

In the context of trying to understand why so many people believe Seachem Prime was useful for them in an elevated ammonia situation, against the data in the link below about Prime potentially doing nothing to free ammonia in seawater, the question arises, why...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[LordJoshaeus]

A couple of things - keep the water temps relatively low, and limit the number and size of fish in each bag:

To quote:

"The metabolic rate of fish will double for each 18 degree F increase in temperatures and be reduced by half for each 18 degree F decrease in temperature. A reduced metabolic rate will decrease the oxygen consumption, ammonia production and carbon dioxide production. Therefore, it is essential to transport fish as low temperatures."*

"The easiest way to reduce toxic ammonia buildup in transport water is to lower the temperature of the transport water and to stop feeding several days before transporting."*

Slowed ammonia and carbon dioxide production both help to prevent ammonia buildup.


Randy or some of the Chem forum regulars may have more ideas, but - given the level of ammonia needed for acute toxicity in fish** - I doubt more than that is needed for properly stocked transport bags.

*Source:

Transportation of Fish in Bags | MU Extension

Reviewed by Robert A. Pierce IIExtension Fisheries and Wildlife SpecialistReviewed by David BruneProfessor, Plant Sciences and TechnologyL. SwannIllinois-Indiana Sea Grant Program, Purdue University

extension.missouri.edu

**Source:

How toxic is ammonia, really?

In the context of trying to understand why so many people believe Seachem Prime was useful for them in an elevated ammonia situation, against the data in the link below about Prime potentially doing nothing to free ammonia in seawater, the question arises, why...

www.reef2reef.com

How big a bag would be advisable for a single, neon tetra sized Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis? Just trying to get an idea how big the box (and my shipping bill!) would need to be...I would be shipping six per order.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

How big a bag would be advisable for a single, neon tetra sized Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis? Just trying to get an idea how big the box (and my shipping bill!) would need to be...I would be shipping six per order.

Recommendations on bag size vary, some people say the bag should be 1-2 inches longer than the fish; others say the bag should be 3x the length of the fish. I'm not sure which is best while keeping cost-effectiveness in mind.

I do know that the recommendation is always 1 fish per bag though.

 

[Tamberav]

Where does a small scale hobbyist like me get pure oxygen?

Medical supply

 

[Tamberav]

Use UPS not fedex for overnight as well.

 

[LordJoshaeus]

Use UPS not fedex for overnight as well.

If I am not mistaken, doesn't FedEx prohibit live animals?

 

[Tamberav]

If I am not mistaken, doesn't FedEx prohibit live animals?

Not sure but they were used a lot but they have been really terrible since Covid. Maybe they now prohibit them? I certainly revived boxes from them with live animal Stickers and arrows in the past

A quick google says you can use fedex ship center but not a fedex office.