how do you think alk affect hair algae

nixer · Jan 28, 2011

i have had bad HA for awhile not really bad, but alot worse then i would care to.
so far the only thing that has changed was i started adding abit more baking soda and i added a black sea cucumber.
nothing else has changed stats wise or livestock or routine wise.

some planted tank fellas might know that plants need certain levels to really take off, but does anyone really know what alk or ph for that matter that HA really flourishes?

swissgaurd · Jan 28, 2011

very good question but i dont think it has anything to do with ph or alk.
ive had some pretty big swings and no hair algae
i would say phosphate and nitrate play a big role

vic

KingRicky · Jan 28, 2011

I am currently fighting a hair algae outbreak. I figured out that I was overfeeding so I have drastically cut back. If it doesn't recede in a few weeks, I will resort to shutting down my lights and covering the tank for a few days.

nixer · Jan 28, 2011

swissgaurd said:
very good question but i dont think it has anything to do with ph or alk.
ive had some pretty big swings and no hair algae
i would say phosphate and nitrate play a big role

vic

surely phosphate and nitrate feed hair algae, but low ph and alk could in fact better the conditions for hair algae to go.
in planted tanks lower ph helps create ideal conditions for the plant itself. it does not "feed it". all plant life need air, light, food, and many other proper conditions. all must typically be in a certain balance for it to flourish.

nixer · Jan 28, 2011

KingRicky said:
I am currently fighting a hair algae outbreak. I figured out that I was overfeeding so I have drastically cut back. If it doesn't recede in a few weeks, I will resort to shutting down my lights and covering the tank for a few days.

i dont think that will work. the little extra time for perhaps a refugium to lower the nutrient levels might make some impact, but it would have to be pretty large to reverse a "good" outbreak.

KingRicky · Jan 28, 2011

I am adding Cheato to my sump this weekend. I know that it will help with nutrient export.

mizzoumed02 · Jan 28, 2011

I haven't ever seen Hair algae with ALK swings. The few times that I've experienced HA in my system were when my Nitrates and Phosphates went up due to my skimmer messing up and the other time was when I tired and let my light bulbs go a two months longer than normal.

Mr.Firemouth · Jan 28, 2011

How are you adding baking soda?
Is it a homemade solution, or adding directly to the tank, or a commercial solution?
You could be introducing phosphates. Check your source water for TDS with a pen probe, and test your baking soda solution for PO4 also.

nixer · Jan 28, 2011

Mr.Firemouth said:
How are you adding baking soda?
Is it a homemade solution, or adding directly to the tank, or a commercial solution?
You could be introducing phosphates. Check your source water for TDS with a pen probe, and test your baking soda solution for PO4 also.

mix with water then dose.
im not introducing phosphates. and my tds is fine i dont believe you read the original post correctly

Mr.Firemouth · Jan 29, 2011

I read your post correctly. It is just that Hair Algae is associated with higher nutrients in the water column. This can be caused by several factors:
1. source water has TDS or PO4
2. excessive feeding with dry foods( high in PO4)
3. DIY solutions sometimes have PO4. Not all food grade items like Baking Soda, Calcium Chloride, or Pickling Lime(sodium hydroxide) comes PO4 free.
4. a system may need more water changes(increase frequency or gallonage)
5. leaching from rocks that may of been exposed to previous high levels of NO3 and P04
6. some types of older bulbs can fuel an algal outbreak

These are just some reasons. To answer your question directly, yes an Alk reading below 8DKH can have a faster growth rate of nuisance algaes like HA and bryopsis. The thing is to determine the root cause and correct that.

I prefer to bake my baking soda at 500F for 1 hour before adding it to my water container. It seems to be a stronger solution that just mixing the baking soda directly to my water container. Baking it drives off extra CO2 and allows it to dissolve better. Randy Holmes farley gives the reasons as to why to bake it in his articles. Hopefully something I listed will help you pinpoint what could be the cause of your HA.

nixer · Jan 29, 2011

yes and his reason is to dry it out better and to burn off co2, there is no real reason to as co2 is not a combustible gas

kuyatwo · Jan 29, 2011

If it were me just buy soda ash not sure how much you time is worth. I do not have the time to wait to bake baking soda to soda ash but you can get a 50lb bucket of soda ash from leslies pool supply for around 50 bucks

I don't see a correlation between ha and alk. But I do notice if my Mg is low ha and bryopsis starts to spring up

Paul_N · Jan 29, 2011

I have never seen a HA growth spurt due to low alk in my tank over the years. I have ran it in the 8-14 range to test at various time.

FWIW, The reason to drive off the co2 is that co2 causes a drop in ph. That is why Randy states in his article that recipe one is for people that want to raise their ph and recipe 2 is for people that already have ph around 8.4. It is the same reason we introduce co2 into calcium reactors; to drop ph low enough to dissolve the media. It has nothing to do with it dissolving better or it being a combustible gas or not.

nixer · Jan 29, 2011

i have not seen 1 bit of drop in ph levels .

nixer · Jan 31, 2011

interesting i looked in julian sprungs book algae and it says right in there that alk and ph also plays a part.

drainbamage · Jan 31, 2011

I've defin itley noticed hair algae having an easier time to grow when alk drops (I've never tested PH, nor has anyone ever given me a sufficient reason to do so.) When doing manual removals, I would actually be able to guess the alk based on how the HA felt-real slimy and soft, low Alk, harder and tougher, high/good alk levels. Seems the softer form of the algae spreads faster, whereas the higher alk version of the alk isn't able to grow as fast, or otherwise the alk retards its growth in some manner.

nixer · Jan 31, 2011

drainbamage said:
I've defin itley noticed hair algae having an easier time to grow when alk drops (I've never tested PH, nor has anyone ever given me a sufficient reason to do so.) When doing manual removals, I would actually be able to guess the alk based on how the HA felt-real slimy and soft, low Alk, harder and tougher, high/good alk levels. Seems the softer form of the algae spreads faster, whereas the higher alk version of the alk isn't able to grow as fast, or otherwise the alk retards its growth in some manner.

thats an interesting point. i wonder if the softer version spreads faster because it tends to flow around when freefloating and that it would also trap detris easier.

pickupman66 · Jan 31, 2011

Mr.Firemouth said:
3. DIY solutions sometimes have PO4. Not all food grade items like Baking Soda, Calcium Chloride, or Pickling Lime(sodium hydroxide) comes PO4 free.

Not to discount what you have said as they are all very valid points, but Pickling lime is not sodium hydroxide (NaOH). NaOH is a drain cleaner. it is currently being used to regenerate GFO by some folks. (i plan to try this weekend).

Quoted Direclty from the Mrs. Wages page
Pickling lime is food grade calcium hydroxide with no additives or preservatives