How long for dry rock to function like live ocean rock

[Vette67]

What are you going to order from IPSF if you don't mind me asking? I'm a huge fan of them and have been shopping there since 1999 . In fact, setting up a refugium to grow some tang heaven just to feed my tangs. They love the stuff especially the red and their colors are amazing. Real difference when I feed fresh vs. dry.

In any case I'm wondering because as a user of dry pukani in my current tank it takes a long time to mature. I'm 2 years in and can pick up a rock, turn it 90 degrees, and the face will look like I just put it in. No algae, no sponges, nothing yet on the front of it before I moved it is covered with life. To me this is why using dry rock, even if mixed with live seed, is a mistake.

I've not run the test you have although considering it. Would be interesting to compare. Prior to being furloughed last Friday I was considering moving some larger rocks to my sump and ordering a box of rock from TBS. Once I sort things out here next week maybe what I should do instead is do the same test you did, note those results, then do my plan on moving rocks to the sump and swapping out with TBS, wait a month, then retest .

I think Richard has a pretty good backlog so this gives me time to think about this. But long and short of it dry rock isn't all that it is cracked up to be. Other than my children liking it since I didn't raid their college funds to buy rock

Gee...all this from me asking about ipsf - but I really love that place.

I pretty much ordered everything. Mud, sand, algae, worms, pods, asterinas, micro brittle stars, hermits... anything I could. I was planning on doing this order anyway, but out of curiosity, I wanted to know where I was before the addition and after. I am looking forward to getting my order, and then retesting in a month or so, to note the difference. If it is feasible, I would strongly recommend this. We are all guessing without data, so it’s good to know where we are in the process.

 

[User1]

I pretty much ordered everything. Mud, sand, algae, worms, pods, asterinas, micro brittle stars, hermits... anything I could. I was planning on doing this order anyway, but out of curiosity, I wanted to know where I was before the addition and after. I am looking forward to getting my order, and then retesting in a month or so, to note the difference. If it is feasible, I would strongly recommend this. We are all guessing without data, so it’s good to know where we are in the process.

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

I pretty much ordered everything. Mud, sand, algae, worms, pods, asterinas, micro brittle stars, hermits... anything I could. I was planning on doing this order anyway, but out of curiosity, I wanted to know where I was before the addition and after. I am looking forward to getting my order, and then retesting in a month or so, to note the difference. If it is feasible, I would strongly recommend this. We are all guessing without data, so it’s good to know where we are in the process.

Sounds like a good plan.

I have never ordered from IPSF but I’ve heard lots of good things. After this conversation I may look into placing an order myself!

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I started my tanks with only trans-shipped Fiji live rock, because dry rock was not readily available back in the day, and it just wasn’t how you started a reef tank back then. So I am of the opinion that biodiversity is key to a successful reef, and have been saying that for years. So in order to put my money where my mouth was, I decided to do a microbiome test of my tank. I had read about how old tanks can lose their bacterial biodiversity over time, and figured I should see where I stand. Mind you, I have no problems. I have excellent SPS growth, fish are happy, coralline encrusts like mad, so no reason to suspect I have a problem. So imagine my surprise when I got my microbiome test results and they revealed my tank is somewhere in the 5-10% range of bacterial diversity among tanks tested. Meaning at least 90% of tanks tested have more diverse bacterial populations than mine.

Now I was already planning on making an order with Indo pacific sea farm, something I had already done in the early 2000’s. But this only reinforces the fact that I need to do something to increase my bacterial diversity.

I am not sure what to make of these results. They are kind of in direct contradiction to what we are saying here is important. Now I do have a large diversity of macro fauna - bristle worms, feather dusters, pineapple sponges, copepods, amphipods, etc... I haven’t had time to fully digest these results, as I literally got them on Friday. But it is certainly interesting in the context of this discussion.

I’ll leave that for the group to discuss. I’ll admit these results baffle me and don’t really make sense, especially in the context of what has been discussed in this thread. So what does everyone think? Picture taken 5 minutes ago:

Is the only flow you have only two maxi jets your using for powerheads?

 

[Vette67]

Is the only flow you have only two maxi jets your using for powerheads?

Why yes it is. I have been considering adding more, as 2600 GPH may not fully be sufficient. But yeah, I’m old school in a lot of ways. I still use halide and VHO too.

 

[andrewey]

Why yes it is. I have been considering adding more, as 2600 GPH may not fully be sufficient. But yeah, I’m old school in a lot of ways. I still use halide and VHO too.

God bless those original maxijets. Run them as a utility pump or throw on the high flow mods you're running, it doesn't matter- they might just outlast the seams on that tank.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

Why yes it is. I have been considering adding more, as 2600 GPH may not fully be sufficient. But yeah, I’m old school in a lot of ways. I still use halide and VHO too.

If it’s not broken don’t fix it right? You’re tank looks pretty darn successful!

 

[mrpizzaface]

Florida is fine. In a perfect world, some Tonga, Fiji, etc. would be good too, but that is just not practical in this world.

This should help a lot.

If you were starting a reef now and had to purchase rock, what type of rock would you choose?

 

[PhantomHalo]

If you were starting a reef now and had to purchase rock, what type of rock would you choose?

If I was to start all over and money wasn’t an issue, I would get some from as many places as I could. Some from Florida with all the life on it, some from Walt Smith in Fiji, some from Indo, some from the bottom of the vat at the local pet stores, etc. Fill the display with the best looking stuff and sump the rest. Doing all base rock was a huge mistake that I won’t make again.

 

[92Miata]

I do wonder how much of the issues people see with dry rock based tanks isn't a live rock issue in and of itself - but an issue with the attitude of "I don't want anything in my reef tank that I didn't purposefully add". They're not only limited from a bacterial/etc perspective - but they have very few of the micro-critters that make more 'natural' tanks work - stomatella, worms, pods, sponges, etc.

IE, the problem isn't the rock - its the deliberate sterility.

(i'm about 6 weeks into a dry rock tank that I've made a point of introducing lots of critters, and I'm not hitting any of the common dry rock issues - got sps doing well already)

 

[Brandon McHenry]

If I was to start all over and money wasn’t an issue, I would get some from as many places as I could. Some from Florida with all the life on it, some from Walt Smith in Fiji, some from Indo, some from the bottom of the vat at the local pet stores, etc. Fill the display with the best looking stuff and sump the rest. Doing all base rock was a huge mistake that I won’t make again.

Those are great suggestions! For Florida there is KP Aquatics (which I have ordered from for work and their rock is very nice) and Tampa Bay Saltwater (which I have heard great things about too). Where can you get Indo rock from?

I do wonder how much of the issues people see with dry rock based tanks isn't a live rock issue in and of itself - but an issue with the attitude of "I don't want anything in my reef tank that I didn't purposefully add". They're not only limited from a bacterial/etc perspective - but they have very few of the micro-critters that make more 'natural' tanks work - stomatella, worms, pods, sponges, etc.

IE, the problem isn't the rock - its the deliberate sterility.

(i'm about 6 weeks into a dry rock tank that I've made a point of introducing lots of critters, and I'm not hitting any of the common dry rock issues - got sps doing well already)

I agree to a point. I think it may be more taking those critters for granted. I have seen so much about dry rock only being seeded with bacteria and not these other organisms and I think part of that is not know that they are needed or how to get them. Live rock will bring all of these beneficial organisms in one easy package, where as for a dry rock tank they all have to be brought in individually. I’d love to see a picture of your tank!

 

[PhantomHalo]

Those are great suggestions! For Florida there is KP Aquatics (which I have ordered from for work and their rock is very nice) and Tampa Bay Saltwater (which I have heard great things about too). Where can you get Indo rock from?



I agree to a point. I think it may be more taking those critters for granted. I have seen so much about dry rock only being seeded with bacteria and not these other organisms and I think part of that is not know that they are needed or how to get them. Live rock will bring all of these beneficial organisms in one easy package, where as for a dry rock tank they all have to be brought in individually. I’d love to see a picture of your tank!

I just got some from Live Rock and Reef for Florida rock and it was nice too! Indo would be from big colonies that are glued onto rocks or from IPRF and their products. I think it’s just more of getting the bacteria from their wild colonies and hoping they populate in your tank.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

I just got some from Live Rock and Reef for Florida rock and it was nice too! Indo would be from big colonies that are glued onto rocks or from IPRF and their products. I think it’s just more of getting the bacteria from their wild colonies and hoping they populate in your tank.

What was your overall experience with Live Rock and Reef? What type of rock did you get and how did it ship? Feel free to include pics!

 

[PhantomHalo]

What was your overall experience with Live Rock and Reef? What type of rock did you get and how did it ship? Feel free to include pics!

It was good! I got their cherry picked rock shipped overnight to my door. Didn’t have many critters on it though. Just algae as far as I could tell. I did get one hermit crab I guess. Lol Here are some pics of the rock. I let it sit for a few days to get most of the dead stuff off, but put it into my tank after that. I wanted all the goodies that came with it. I have 2 angels, 3 triggers, and a Christmas and corris wrasse. Not too worried about bad crustaceans or snails. However, most of it went into my sump. I have a 300 gal DD and 100 gal sump. I only bought 30lbs. So it was a drop in the bucket as far as nutrients go. Most everything made it though. Have some halmedia (sp?) and some green finger looking algae along with the standard sponges and coralline.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

It was good! I got their cherry picked rock shipped overnight to my door. Didn’t have many critters on it though. Just algae as far as I could tell. I did get one hermit crab I guess. Lol Here are some pics of the rock. I let it sit for a few days to get most of the dead stuff off, but put it into my tank after that. I wanted all the goodies that came with it. I have 2 angels, 3 triggers, and a Christmas and corris wrasse. Not too worried about bad crustaceans or snails. However, most of it went into my sump. I have a 300 gal DD and 100 gal sump. I only bought 30lbs. So it was a drop in the bucket as far as nutrients go. Most everything made it though. Have some halmedia (sp?) and some green finger looking algae along with the standard sponges and coralline.

Very nice! I’ve been looking around for some smaller pieces of live rock rubble to put in the back compartment of my AIO for some extra biological filtration and a place for sponges, pods etc to grow. Came across Live Rock and Reef and they actually sell “refugium rock” which may be just what I need.

 

[PhantomHalo]

Very nice! I’ve been looking around for some smaller pieces of live rock rubble to put in the back compartment of my AIO for some extra biological filtration and a place for sponges, pods etc to grow. Came across Live Rock and Reef and they actually sell “refugium rock” which may be just what I need.

Yeah, they have it from time to time. When I spoke to them, they didn’t have any in stock. However, they don’t “stock” any rock really. They wait for orders to come in and then go out and harvest the rock from their designated area and ship it out the next day. There was a bit of sales pitch when he called to verify my order, but it wasn’t too bad. Smooth transaction and nice rock.

 

[samnaz]

Very nice! I’ve been looking around for some smaller pieces of live rock rubble to put in the back compartment of my AIO for some extra biological filtration and a place for sponges, pods etc to grow. Came across Live Rock and Reef and they actually sell “refugium rock” which may be just what I need.

Get any size live rock and hit it a few times with a hammer, you’ve got rubble rock.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

Yeah, they have it from time to time. When I spoke to them, they didn’t have any in stock. However, they don’t “stock” any rock really. They wait for orders to come in and then go out and harvest the rock from their designated area and ship it out the next day. There was a bit of sales pitch when he called to verify my order, but it wasn’t too bad. Smooth transaction and nice rock.

Yeah I figured they probably harvest to order.

Get any size live rock and hit it a few times with a hammer, you’ve got rubble rock.

Yes I’m open to that too. I don’t need a lot which was why I was looking for the smallest amount I could find online. I would order from KP but I’m not sure I need 10 more pounds which is the lowest they do.