how many dose for nitrates

[jeffyhound]

OK, I have tried feeding heavier, shutting down skimmer, and I have zero nitrates. Picking up the feeding seems to raise PO4 instead of nitrates. I just wonder who else is running into this?

 

[dave57]

Many people have and the outcome is not good, STN RTN will soon appear from the depths below! The frags will become weaker and weaker as the days go without supplemental feedings. I would dose nitrates or simply add more fish to the system. I would take it slow and research before you dose anything in your tank.

 

[jeffyhound]

Thanks. I am asking because I am trying other options first. I am working on getting more fish in.

 

[JMetaxas]

I have to start dosing too. I just bought Potassium Nitrate on Amazon. I can't get my Nitrates to register and I think I feed pretty heavily.

 

[hatfielj]

I am currently dosing nitrates (and some phosphates too) and so far the results have been good. I couldn't get my NO3 or PO4 up no matter how much I fed or how many fish I have. I use Sodium Nitrate and Monosodium Phosphate from Amazon. My colors have improved since I started dosing. I went through a small, short lived algae bloom (glass algae) after I started dosing, but it has since gone away.
I'll be posting pics of my corals in the next week or so hopefully so I can show the results.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Ime dosing no3 has only become necessary with the rise of ULNS and carbon dosing. I think that reducing carbon dosing, adding more fish and feeding more clean frozen foods is a better option. No3 and po4 will be produced naturally in a reef tank as food and fish waste break down and bacteria convert ammoina. I think its counter productive to dose carbon to reduce no3 and po4 only to have to dose no3 back into the system. If younhqbe a need to dose no3 then either your bioload is too light or carbon dosing is stripping to much out of the water. I prefer an algae fuge, gfo, a good bioload and water changes to balance nutrients. Just 1 person's experience and opinion.

 

[Ashish Patel]

OK, I have tried feeding heavier, shutting down skimmer, and I have zero nitrates. Picking up the feeding seems to raise PO4 instead of nitrates. I just wonder who else is running into this?

How old is your system and did you start with all dry rock or mix? What are you Nitrate levels? In a newer system say <6month I wouldnt dose anything just reduce your skimmer and increase your feeding, the nutrients will buildup overtime in your rock, sand, sump etc. I had 0 nitrates it seemed forever and then i started dosing flourish nitrogen by seachem and went to fast and had algae issue for a few months. My tank did mature after this point but I stopped dosing and let my nitrates run at around .2 PPM. I decided to start dosing flourish nitrogen again but this time very very slowly, few capful every 3 days and to my surprise the nitrates rose to 5PPM, held stable! Now I got it to 5-10PPM and I have not had to dose any nitrate for 1 month. Its weird how the system works its just a balancing act. I will say I did not notice any improvement in color or growth from running .2 nitrates to 5+PPM.. Im going on 4 months of having nitrates so not sure what the issues are maybe just have to give it time. Im just saying don't think nitrates will make you or break you the Phosphates on the other hand going to 0 will absolutely break you so keep them above .03 at all cost, dose a little bit or nitrate but going on a daily dose is unnecessary IME.

 

[xiaoxiy]

Ime dosing no3 has only become necessary with the rise of ULNS and carbon dosing. I think that reducing carbon dosing, adding more fish and feeding more clean frozen foods is a better option. No3 and po4 will be produced naturally in a reef tank as food and fish waste break down and bacteria convert ammoina. I think its counter productive to dose carbon to reduce no3 and po4 only to have to dose no3 back into the system. If younhqbe a need to dose no3 then either your bioload is too light or carbon dosing is stripping to much out of the water. I prefer an algae fuge, gfo, a good bioload and water changes to balance nutrients. Just 1 person's experience and opinion.

I think that 0 nitrate and phosphate readings are not limited to carbon dosed tanks.

My tank is only filtered by live rock, a skimmer and a chaeto reactor (running an 8 hour photoperiod). I rarely run activated carbon, do not run a filter sock, and do not use GFO either. Moreover, I feed relatively heavily. Despite this minimal filtration and heavy feeding, my nitrates and phosphates read consistently at 0 so I've started dosing nitrates.

Much to my surprise, it became readily clear that my tank was still nitrate limited despite my heavy feedings and frequent amino acid dosing. Things started growing faster and coloring up more for me after starting nitrate dosing!

 

[Big E]

There is plenty of history that algae filters or carbon dosing can cause limitation.........it's usually nitrates.
A lot of tanks could probably do without either of these export tools and be fine with readable in line test numbers and thriving corals.

 

[drawman]

Yeah I will agree that there is a small subset of tanks that are efficient at reducing NO3/PO4 without algae based exports and carbon dosing.

My 30 gallon is one of these. Very simple system without a skimmer and only live rock, bare bottom, and 2 Liters of Siporax as filtration. The Siporax is too efficient and I have to dose NO3/PO4 to keep it from bottoming out. Now it certainly could be removed as an option and I think my setup is not the norm.

Back to the OP I'm not a fan of letting either NO3/PO4 bottom out in my systems. I will say when I've dosed NO3 I have had PO4 bottom out as a result by not watching it close enough and it is not fun for acros.

 

[jda]

I am going to assume that you have an established, mature tank of at least a year? If not, then disregard all of this...

You very likely have some nitrates. Our test kits cannot read them. I have .1 nitrate, but I have to send in for IC to get the reading.

Your issue is that your tank can process them too well. This is a GOOD thing. The anoxic zones just chew them up... but there is always enough to feed the corals and the bacteria and drive the equilibrium. If you add more nitrate, you can guess what is going to happen... you will feed/grow more anoxic bacteria and you will eventually get a new equilibrium that also is very close to zero just like now. This is the basic component of the Berlin system, which is till the most successful reefing system of all time.

Having some will not hurt you, as long as it is not too much, but some tanks just are not capable of having any - mine is this way, as well.

If you are not carbon dosing or otherwise using media to drive N low, then I would go with this:
1). Assume that you have enough or else stuff would be dying - if there was a Hannah Ultra Low for this, you would probable be at .1 to .9, or so.
2). Just deal with phosphate to also have the low, but detectable. Fuge can help here... the chaeto will eat up some P, but also grab some N to help and the anoxic bacteria will adjust in lower numbers back to the equilibrium.

 

[jeffyhound]

Our reef is 8 years old. I have never had any nitrates. When I began I got 50 pounds of actual Gulf live rock that was seeded in the Ocean. I added BRS reefsaver rock to that. Our system is 320 gallons. We have a 100 gallon Rubbermaid sump. It has a mix of rock and algae as a fuge. I don't carbon dose. I use 2 part. I almost never run carbon or GFO. I only do that if i have an issue i need to address. I have Hannah tester as well as red sea kits. they show trace of phosphate but never have had any nitrate. i also realize that a zero test, only means the nitrates are locked up in other forms. SPS stays alive and grows very slowly for me, but my colors are not good and growth is much slower than i see in other tanks. I don't mean to say my system is awful. we have a beautiful reef, but i am always trying to improve. this is one place my tests show me i am lacking. i read Mike's article on various reef's parameters. they all have nitrates, so that jumps out as where i am lacking compared to those.

 

[jda]

If you really want to raise it, then take some algae out. However, I fear that that the bacteria will adjust and you will be at zero again as soon as they do. Having Nitrates is no sign of success... I am sure that you have seen all of the ZEO tanks and the other hobbyists who have the same parameters as you and I do.

Most color and growth issues are from lighting or inconsistency. Do you have high-quality acropora lighting? ...and lots of it? My acros grow like crazy in these parameters, but I do have a ton of MH output for them to eat.

 

[jeffyhound]

you will note most is LPS. I have maxspect lights.

 

[jda]

I would probably guess moving to higher quality lights would provide the largest gain for color and growth. I do not mean more expensive LEDs, but T5s or Halides. IMO, you water is very good, but the effort to make it excellent (if you even could) would be a drop in the bucket compared to lighting.

 

[jeffyhound]

See, lighting is the one thing I have been able to play with. I have two 35 gallon frag tanks under the Black Boxes, a 75 under T5 and I have retired MH lights. Honestly, I don't see a whole lot of difference between them. My corals are about the same under all 3. Yes, maybe some difference, but not enough to pay the electric bill for the halides, or the constant bulbs for the T5. My Black Boxes are giving me just as good results with lower heat. Just not feeling you on the lights. I have played with those so much, my experience just isn't showing me that. I still feel my problem is something I am missing as far as dosing or something. I have played with Kalk, ESV, BRS, Evergrow and am currently using Aquaforest. I have used Kent, IO reef, Red Sea salts over the years, but am currently using HW Marine. I have a lot of experience, but I want to take this to a new level, and I just am not getting there for some reason. There is something I am missing, and I just can't put a finger on it. I dose my tank to match my salt. I run 11.6dkh, 430CA, 1500mg, 1.025 salt, my ph stays between 8.3 and 8.4. My phosphates are at .025 with no nitrates. I use acro power 10ml twice a day. I don't dose any minor ions. I don't dose carbon, and I don't run carbon of GFO unless I have discolored water, algae, something that I am trying to address. right now, I have nothing but live rock and macro.

 

[TexasTodd]

Well, I was going to say lights too. But who knows after your last post. What bulbs are you running for T5 and MH?

 

[dave57]

See, lighting is the one thing I have been able to play with. I have two 35 gallon frag tanks under the Black Boxes, a 75 under T5 and I have retired MH lights. Honestly, I don't see a whole lot of difference between them. My corals are about the same under all 3. Yes, maybe some difference, but not enough to pay the electric bill for the halides, or the constant bulbs for the T5. My Black Boxes are giving me just as good results with lower heat. Just not feeling you on the lights. I have played with those so much, my experience just isn't showing me that. I still feel my problem is something I am missing as far as dosing or something. I have played with Kalk, ESV, BRS, Evergrow and am currently using Aquaforest. I have used Kent, IO reef, Red Sea salts over the years, but am currently using HW Marine. I have a lot of experience, but I want to take this to a new level, and I just am not getting there for some reason. There is something I am missing, and I just can't put a finger on it. I dose my tank to match my salt. I run 11.6dkh, 430CA, 1500mg, 1.025 salt, my ph stays between 8.3 and 8.4. My phosphates are at .025 with no nitrates. I use acro power 10ml twice a day. I don't dose any minor ions. I don't dose carbon, and I don't run carbon of GFO unless I have discolored water, algae, something that I am trying to address. right now, I have nothing but live rock and macro.

Test your potassium level as I have experienced 200ppm with HWReefer salt.

 

[Jlentz]

I got the stuff to dose but I’ve always been iffy about dumping stump killer in my reefs.

Then my Lfs started getting affordable anthias.

The thing that sucks about a dozen anthias is trying to count them all to make sure they are all accounted for.

 

[jeffyhound]

I have a Diamond Goby, a starry blenny and a gold headed sleeper in QT to add. I am going to try more fish first. Part of that is sand sifters to help keep sand clean, the second though is the nitrates. My plan is to do that first, and only after I see if that works will I consider dosing. I will also get some tests for the minor metals and see what they are like. I don't dose, and don't really test things like Potassium. I have considered it, but just haven't gone there at this point.