How many drains / return (bulkheads) to still?

[dreamcatcherr9]

I am having tank drilled (internal). I can pick the size and amount of drain / return (bulkheads).

I was thinking (4) drilled holes; 3 for drains and 1 for return (?).

I am highly considering a Bashsea sump, 3 drains at 1.5”. So I would have the drains in tank (bulkheads) drilled to match 1.5” (?).

For a return pump, I was highly considering Varios 8, it’s specs say 1.25” outlet, But I was going to match the 1.5” pvc drains and just reduce line at pump (?).

Various 8 rated at 2700 (I estimate a 9ft head loss, online calculated rated a 0 loss??).
240g tank, 72x32x24

Redundancy / back up discussion aside, is this single pump enough for flow return?

If I need or choice to run two return pumps, should I have 5th hole drilled??

Should I consider another return pump (or sump?)? Any suggestions highly appreciated.

240g tank ; 2700 gph return pump would give me just over 10 times turn over (?). Am I looking for 20-40 times turn over??

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[Miller535]

There is absolutely NO WAY you would have no head pressure lost at 9ft.

If it were me, I would have 5 drilled, 3 drains and 2 returns. If gives you redundancy and more dispersed flow in the tank.

 

[Miller535]

Head loss for varios8, at 9feet you are down to about 1,300gph

 

[Miller535]

So if 2,700 gph is what you were wanting with this specific pump, you would need two. This is just my two cents, but I think most of your circulation should come from turnover of power heads within the DT and not a high amount of times through the sump.

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

Head loss for varios8, at 9feet you are down to about 1,300gph

I couldn’t find that! Thank you!!

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

So if 2,700 gph is what you were wanting with this specific pump, you would need two. This is just my two cents, but I think most of your circulation should come from turnover of power heads within the DT and not a high amount of times through the sump.

So specifically for sump flow and turn over, what am I looking for (5x? 10x?). Would a single Varios 8 do it, or still recommendation is two of these pumps? Or a different single pump??

 

[Miller535]

So specifically for sump flow and turn over, what am I looking for (5x? 10x?). Would a single Varios 8 do it, or still recommendation is two of these pumps? Or a different single pump??

I personally would still do 2 for redundancy, but would shoot more for 5x turnover through the sump. You could still buy two of the Varios8 pumps if that's what you like, and tune them down if need be. They are controllable.

 

[JoshH]

I'll second the split the return to dual 1" outlets

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

I'll add, I would split the return to dual 1" outlets myself...

Elaborate please? You’d go smaller? For 1.25 down to 1”? Vs 1.25 up to 1.5”??

And when you say split; do you mean use 1 pump and split for two returns (which was my original plan), but I wasn’t sure the 2700gph Various 8 was enough for the 240g tank??

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

I personally would still do 2 for redundancy, but would shoot more for 5x turnover through the sump. You could still buy two of the Varios8 pumps if that's what you like, and tune them down if need be. They are controllable.

Thank you for the quick responses. I don’t want to do redundancy. I just wanted to make sure I had enough return flow. The chart you sent helps tons. Appreciated.

 

[JoshH]

Elaborate please? You’d go smaller? For 1.25 down to 1”? Vs 1.25 up to 1.5”??

And when you say split; do you mean use 1 pump and split for two returns (which was my original plan), but I wasn’t sure the 2700gph Various 8 was enough for the 240g tank??

I'd take the 1.25 and increase it at the pump to 1.5 then split the 1.5 into 2 1" returns at the tank height. If your focused on a DC return pump I would look at the Royal Exclusive or Abyzz lines, they have a couple pumps that are better suited for higher head height applications. And yes I'm well aware of there cost. I'll most likely be going with an Abyzz A200 for my return on my tank (Basement sump).

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

I'd take the 1.25 and increase it at the pump to 1.5 then split the 1.5 into 2 1" returns at the tank height. If your focused on a DC return pump I would look at the Royal Exclusive or Abyzz lines, they have a couple pumps that are better suited for higher head height applications. And yes I'm well aware of there cost. I'll most likely be going with an Abyzz A200 for my return on my tank (Basement sump).

Educate me more please! Why drop down to 1” (at split)? Wouldn’t larger return equal more flow?

And if I take the 1.25 outlet, run up with 1.5” pvc, and then drop to 1” at returns; do I do so only at return (standpipe / nozzle) OR before the bulkhead (drilling bulkhead size at 1” vs 1.5”)??

I was trying to avoid the cost of 2 pumps (redundancy discussion aside); but the cost of a super high end pump would wash out the cost of 2 pumps, then maybe redundancy would be a factor?

 

[Miller535]

Educate me more please! Why drop down to 1” (at split)? Wouldn’t larger return equal more flow?

And if I take the 1.25 outlet, run up with 1.5” pvc, and then drop to 1” at returns; do I do so only at return (standpipe / nozzle) OR before the bulkhead (drilling bulkhead size at 1” vs 1.5”)??

I was trying to avoid the cost of 2 pumps (redundancy discussion aside); but the cost of a super high end pump would wash out the cost of 2 pumps, then maybe redundancy would be a factor?

He's saying to split the 1.5" into TWO 1" lines. It would increase flow.

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

He's saying to split the 1.5" into TWO 1" lines. It would increase flow.

Ok. dang math, 1+1 bigger than 1.5 (my bad). But before display tank (so bulkheads at 1”).

And if I did go with 2 pumps (since more affordable than 1 high end and splitting) can I just do 1.5” PVC and return holes then? No need to split at that point, since each would have its own line (and math would be 1.5+1.5). LOL.

 

[JoshH]

Dropping to 1" at the split gives you return Nozzle options. There are no return fitting options other than basic PVC fittings once you go larger than 1" and even at 1" you're pretty limited to VCA Random flow Generators. As mentioned above going from one 1.5" line and splitting to two 1" returns will provide more flow than through the 1.5" and still give you return fitting options.

To set this up you would increase the 1.25 at the pump to 1.5 then purchase a reducing T or Y and install it as close to the return outlets as you can on the 1.5". This will split your return from 1.5 into two 1" lines with one fitting.

Personally I think if you would like to run dual pumps, have two entirely separate return lines. Oh and I'll add, whatever you do, DO NOT have holes drilled for 1.25" bulkheads. They are next to impossible to find lately and you might find yourself with holes in your tank you can't use...

 

[Miller535]

Dropping to 1" at the split gives you return Nozzle options. There are no return fitting options other than basic PVC fittings once you go larger than 1" and even at 1" you're pretty limited to VCA Random flow Generators. As mentioned above going from one 1.5" line and splitting to two 1" returns will provide more flow than through the 1.5" and still give you return fitting options.

To set this up you would increase the 1.25 at the pump to 1.5 then purchase a reducing T or Y and install it as close to the return outlets as you can on the 1.5". This will split your return from 1.5 into two 1" lines with one fitting.

Personally I think if you would like to run dual pumps, have two entirely separate return lines.

Agreed.

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

That all helped a lot!! Thank you for the patience in explaining. Flow nozzle 1” makes total sense, and using Y at point to reduce makes a lot a sense.

If I go 2 Varios8 ($415 each) I would run separate lines and reduce tojust before or at output nozzles.

If I went 1 larger higher end pump, I would split lines (1.5” PVC) and reduce to 1” at split / nozzle return.

If I went 1 pump looks like Red Dragon ($1350) more affordable than Abyss. But still a big jump from running 2 pumps (and for redundancy, 2 pumps is better than 1?)

Red Dragon 3 Speedy Pump 150 Watt (4500 GPH)

Powerful, reliable, and incredibly quiet. Red Dragon pumps set a standard that few can compete with. Red Dragon produces high performance aquarium pumps for closed loop or return pump applications. They have earned a repuation for being some of the quietest, most powerful, and most solidly...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Miller535]

That all helped a lot!! Thank you for the patience in explaining. Flow nozzle 1” makes total sense, and using Y at point to reduce makes a lot a sense.

If I go 2 Varios8 ($415 each) I would run separate lines and reduce tojust before or at output nozzles.

If I went 1 larger higher end pump, I would split lines (1.5” PVC) and reduce to 1” at split / nozzle return.

If I went 1 pump looks like Red Dragon ($1350) more affordable than Abyss. But still a big jump from running 2 pumps (and for redundancy, 2 pumps is better than 1?)

Red Dragon 3 Speedy Pump 150 Watt (4500 GPH)

Powerful, reliable, and incredibly quiet. Red Dragon pumps set a standard that few can compete with. Red Dragon produces high performance aquarium pumps for closed loop or return pump applications. They have earned a repuation for being some of the quietest, most powerful, and most solidly...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I think personally 2 pumps is better then one, because if one breaks, your tank still operates, just at half flow. And these pumps are not something you can just easily go to a physical store and buy. But that's a personal choice. If you really wanted to buy the high end pump, you could run it by itself, and buy a cheap Jebao as a back up.

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

Again, thank both of you! All very helpful, except to my bank account...

 

[JoshH]

If you really wanted to buy the high end pump, you could run it by itself, and buy a cheap Jeabo as a back up.

This is the route I am taking with my setup, the Abyzz A200's $2600 up here in Canada and I'm not willing to shell out $5400 to have redundancy. I will however have a backup pump, it'll still cost me $600 but that's a fair bit better lol

And FWIW, if you're buying Royal Exclusive in Canada....

Red Dragon 3 Speedy 150 Watt / 4755gph / 18m³ / 10V connection

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