How much does the actual LED diode/mfg matter?

Petesreef · May 10, 2020

There are a lot of new LED lights and I didn’t want to derail one of Dana’s threads so I thought I would ask this question here.

I know I’m probably overthinking this but I’m also just genuinely curious about the LEDs being used in these lights. This is what I’ve been able to find for information so far and I hope I’ve gotten it right:

Philips CoralCare gen2 - Lumiled Luxeon C, UV, V2. Former division of Philips co based out of California?

Orphek - Orphek LED Emitter? Website says it uses American LED companies to make their LEDs?

Kessil - Dense Matrix LED?

Ecotech Radion Gen5 - couldn’t find anything but Gen4 used Cree, Osram, Semi

Reefbreeder - Cree XT-E & XP-E, Osram, Semi

ReeFi Duo Extreme - Cree XP-E2, Luxeon Rebel

It seems the first 3 co (Philips,Orphek,Kessil) have their LEDs made to their specs - is this true? Most lighting mfg get their LEDs “off the shelf” and those can vary greatly in terms of quality and cost based on things like “binning”.

I understand that people can have success with all kinds of LED lights but if I’m looking for a new light that uses better quality, better efficiency, less heat, longer lasting - do any of these stand out?

Thanks and I apologize for any mistakes!

andrewey · May 10, 2020

Someone with current knowledge will weigh in on the units you listed, but I can tell you back when I used to build lights five years ago, the mfg mattered a ton! Back then, I tested Cree, bridgelux, cheap ebay diodes, and luxeon 3w diodes in addition to some 50 and 100w panels with a par meter and the difference in par was spectacular. In addition, the longevity seemed to differ a lot (there was a thread on RC where some other hobbyists tested their longevity). So ultimately, I can't tell you anything specific right now, but I can tell you that most of the diodes will grow coral, but the par and longevity likely differs quite a bit between manufacturers (in addition to other considerations such as heatsinks, bulbs, drivers, etc.).

GabeM · May 10, 2020

Better LED manufacturers do exist and custom is not always the highest quality. Different companies will have different R&D results, different QC requirements and different testing requirements.

I think you will find today that the light manufacturers may share lot of the same diodes which is not a bad thing. To stand out manufacturers use different ways of placing the LEDs and controlling them, but also many higher end manufacturers underdrive their LEDs for longer life, better efficiency and may have improved cooling further driving diode life.

Petesreef · May 10, 2020

andrewey said:
Someone with current knowledge will weigh in on the units you listed, but I can tell you back when I used to build lights five years ago, the mfg mattered a ton! Back then, I tested Cree, bridgelux, cheap ebay diodes, and luxeon 3w diodes in addition to some 50 and 100w panels with a par meter and the difference in par was spectacular. In addition, the longevity seemed to differ a lot (there was a thread on RC where some other hobbyists tested their longevity). So ultimately, I can't tell you anything specific right now, but I can tell you that most of the diodes will grow coral, but the par and longevity likely differs quite a bit between manufacturers (in addition to other considerations such as heatsinks, bulbs, drivers, etc.).

Orphek seems to suggest that their LEDs are the only ones capable of achieving certain wavelengths as well?

oreo54 · May 10, 2020

450 to 650 MW output.. The range of a CREE xp-e2 Royal blue depending on bin.

Diodes and co's do matter but it's not that easy...

oreo54 · May 11, 2020

Between different fixtures using say CREE XPE2's you have a range of possible outputs.
As to the second part above, adds another complication.. Between the die manuf and the packaging manuf you get another range of variables.

CREE dies are sent to somewhere else to package and phosphor..

I assume this is part of where high K whites come in. Most direct from manuf don't usually carry anything above 5000K w/ 6500k being the top "sort of specialty" shade i.e may be listed but availability is limited to bulk or hit and miss..

Glad you are fussy..

I always assume most top tier manuf of fixtures just pick based on readily available, color consistent, and of course price..
Top bins are generally rarer and demand premium pricing..

Petesreef · May 11, 2020

oreo5457 said:
That kinds of sums up my point..Between different fixtures using say CREE XPE2's you have a range of possible outputs.
As to the second part above, adds another complication.. Between the die manuf and the packaging manuf you get another range of variables.

CREE dies are sent to somewhere else to package and phosphor..

I assume this is part of where high K whites come in. Most direct from manuf don't usually carry anything above 5000K w/ 6500k being the top "sort of specialty" shade i.e may be listed but availability is limited to bulk or hit and miss..

Glad you are fussy..
I always assume most top tier manuf of fixtures just pick based on readily available, color consistent, and of course price..
Top bins are generally rarer and demand premium pricing..

I guess this is my point, I may not fully understand all the complexities/factors that go into the LEDs being used by the individual light mfg but shouldn’t they do a better job of explaining and being more transparent (like ReeFi) about the particular LEDs that they use and how they are maintained in their particular “box”?