How much live/dry rock do I need?

Reef. · Apr 23, 2021

MaxTremors said:
Why bother? For bacterial diversity and the microfauna. I say this all the time, but to me, a reef tank isn’t a reef tank without the microfauna.

The point I made was why bother if the source of the live rock is not trusted, I did suggest adding bacteria or going with a good source of live rock.

langhuang · Apr 23, 2021

Reef. said:
The point I made was why bother if the source of the live rock is not trusted, I did suggest adding bacteria or going with a good source of live rock.

I would buy the live rock because they have a lot of bacteria and it would help recycle your tank better

Reef. · Apr 23, 2021

langhuang said:
I would buy the live rock because they have a lot of bacteria and it would help recycle your tank better

No one said it wouldn't.

good live rock would help, bad live rock could be more of a hindrance

MaxTremors · Apr 23, 2021

Reef. said:
No one said it wouldn't.

good live rock would help, bad live rock could be more of a hindrance

What even constitutes bad live rock? Unless its absolutely covered in aiptasia, vermetids, flatworms, and/or other pests, live rock is always better than bottle bacteria. Even if there are a couple pests, to me it’s still 100x more preferable. Maybe not for someone new to the hobby (but at the same time, you might as well start with the full fat, so to speak), but the biodiversity that you can only get from real live rock is, IMO, imperative to the long term success of your reef. I guess I just don’t understand the appeal of these sterile, fallow ‘reefs’ (to me they’re not even reefs, they’re coral and/or fish displays).

For me, a lot of the fun of having a reef tank is observing all of the organisms that come on live rock create a stable ecosystem (watching populations explode and then die back and eventually reach an equilibrium).

As to the suggestion that you should buy as much dry rock as you can afford and then just a pound of live rock, that will certainly work. But it will take more time to cycle, and it will take months and months for the dry rock to start to be as biologically productive as the live rock. So it’s just a question of how much you want to speed up the process. Also, the more pounds of live rock you seed with, the bigger and more diverse your microfauna brood stock will be.

Azedenkae · Apr 23, 2021

MaxTremors said:
As to the suggestion that you should buy as much dry rock as you can afford and then just a pound of live rock, that will certainly work. But it will take more time to cycle, and it will take months and months for the dry rock to start to be as biologically productive as the live rock. So it’s just a question of how much you want to speed up the process. Also, the more pounds of live rock you seed with, the bigger and more diverse your microfauna brood stock will be.

I mean, this was just recommendations being tailored to op's situation rather than just general broad stroke recommendations. Since op doesn't have much of a budget, there has to be a compromise and in this case the way to make it work best was to suggest getting as much dry rock as possible and just a bit of live rock to seed everything. Different people are in different situations that require different solutions.

Reef. · Apr 23, 2021

Azedenkae said:
I mean, this was just recommendations being tailored to op's situation rather than just general broad stroke recommendations. Since op doesn't have much of a budget, there has to be a compromise and in this case the way to make it work best was to suggest getting as much dry rock as possible and just a bit of live rock to seed everything. Different people are in different situations that require different solutions.

I wish I could sum up as well as you.

I find it hard to work out if some people are deliberately missing the point or just being difficult for the sake of it.

Weasel1960 · Apr 23, 2021

They are all great suggestions and yet another difference of opinion leaves the OP stranded with an argument that leaves doubts about your advice.

@James_O given you have a budget and a 29 gal tank what else is going into the tank because you should also take that into consideration, shelves for corals and hiding places for fish. Are you going for a look like the picture provided by @Reef. or some sort of negative space aquascape.

I would look at some build threads here on R2R for tanks your size for inspiration of what you are looking for. Old school said about 2lbs/gal, negative space is more like 1lb from what I have been reading for my build.

When you have some idea of the look you want go to your LFS pick some dry rock and put it into a sample shape that appeals to you. Have he LFS weigh it for you, that will get you pointed into a decision on how much you will need. Then balance your budget with dry or live and other advice previously given.

You may also want to consider the uglies after cycle,etc. I was going to do all dry for my upcoming 120 gal build but now leaning more towards 25% or so as live just for some of the added diversity from the live rock.

Good luck on your build.

James_O · Apr 23, 2021

I’m back!

I ended up getting 26lb of dry rock and 3lb of live rock! I’ll post pictures tomorrow.

MaxTremors · Apr 23, 2021

Azedenkae said:
I mean, this was just recommendations being tailored to op's situation rather than just general broad stroke recommendations. Since op doesn't have much of a budget, there has to be a compromise and in this case the way to make it work best was to suggest getting as much dry rock as possible and just a bit of live rock to seed everything. Different people are in different situations that require different solutions.

Right, and I was explaining the cost benefit analysis of the ratio of live to dry rock. I didn’t make a recommendation as to how much live rock the OP should buy, I said the more live rock you buy, the faster the rest of your rock will become biologically productive and the more diverse it will be (both in terms of the number of species and the genetic diversity of the species present). I didn’t say your recommendation was wrong, because it isn’t, I only pointed out how using less live rock will affect the progress of his reef.
I understand the OP is on a budget, that does not mean they shouldn’t know the implications of buying more or less live rock vs dry rock. I also understand the desire to simplify and give definitive recommendations for people who are new to the hobby, but IMO that does them a disservice, because this isn’t a simple hobby and there are no (or at the least very few) definitive answers when it comes to stocking choices. It is better to explain the underlying concept or reasoning and then let them make their own decisions.

Weasel1960 · Apr 23, 2021

James_O said:
I’m back!

I ended up getting 26lb of dry rock and 3lb of live rock! I’ll post pictures tomorrow.

Good for you I hope it goes well and look forward to the pictures. Remember to keep good spacing, about 2-3 inches at glass including coral growth for tank maintenance.

Azedenkae · Apr 23, 2021

MaxTremors said:
Right, and I was explaining the cost benefit analysis of the ratio of live to dry rock. I didn’t make a recommendation as to how much live rock the OP should buy, I said the more live rock you buy, the faster the rest of your rock will become biologically productive and the more diverse it will be (both in terms of the number of species and the genetic diversity of the species present). I didn’t say your recommendation was wrong, because it isn’t, I only pointed out how using less live rock will affect the progress of his reef.
I understand the OP is on a budget, that does not mean they shouldn’t know the implications of buying more or less live rock vs dry rock. I also understand the desire to simplify and give definitive recommendations for people who are new to the hobby, but IMO that does them a disservice, because this isn’t a simple hobby and there are no (or at the least very few) definitive answers when it comes to stocking choices. It is better to explain the underlying concept or reasoning and then let them make their own decisions.

Okay. That's... fine, I guess. I just don't see the point of going too deep into something that is not very relevant to the topic at hand, but I suppose for this specific approach to helping others out, to each their own. Sometimes I myself would add some extra info into the mix in case the person asking may be interested, but yeah for the most part don't want to distract or confuse them with recommendations that may not be directly helpful in the situation. But yeah, I suppose to each their own way of being helpful.