How much voltage is too much?

[Octane13]

Back story,
Have had a heck of a time keeping SPS lately and Have lost 1 nem "large" (had for months) and one that may be on its way out... The SPS thing has been an issue for a couple months, got a few frags from a friend and all died within a week some of my other SPS started to STN. Fast fwd to this past weekend when I was fishing a stray snail out of my overflow. It felt like burning in a cut I had on my finger. Thought maybe I'll put on a glove, still happened every now and then. I dismissed it as the cut. Three days ago two of my nems (newest) started to not look so good. Yesterday one died and the other started to look wilted and closed up. But It looked ok before work. So I checked for voltage and I was getting anywhere from 1.5 constant to a surge of 5v. Do you think this could cause my issues.

I have since located the culprit (heater) and removed. I believe the nem looks ok at night bc I run the wood stove and it gets way warmer so both heaters did not need to be on. I hesitated to pull either nem afraid it would cause further stress and kill a potentially savable animal. What do you think?

 

[ScottB]

I too have some stray voltage floating around 16. I narrowed it down to 2 of four power strips (my energy bars were 0) but could never detect a change when unplugging individual components. I went so far as unplugging probes and could not nail down the culprit. (Always start with heaters first.)

Forced me to look around threads here. My recollection was anything near 40V needs to be corrected. Think that was @Brew12 who gave the number. Below that, it is just harmless electrical interference noise. Somebody correct me; my memory is not what it once was.

 

[Brew12]

Forced me to look around threads here. My recollection was anything near 40V needs to be corrected. Think that was @Brew12 who gave the number. Below that, it is just harmless electrical interference noise. Somebody correct me; my memory is not what it once was.

I can't say I recall saying that although I would suspect anything above 40V should be investigated to make sure it is not a fault voltage.

Honestly, I have no idea what a dangerous voltage is when it comes to fish or coral. I'm not even sure it is possible for voltage to be an issue. Voltage is an almost meaningless number without a second voltage to reference it to. You can grab a 35,000V power line with your bare hand as long as you are isolated from ground or another voltage source. You can't even tell the line is energized when you grab it. Since saltwater is a good conductor and it surrounds the fish there is no way to get a second voltage or ground to that fish. It has no way to know if it is at 2V or 200V.

To be clear... I'm not saying voltage can't be an issue. We know at least some fish can sense magnetism which means they could be sensitive to voltage. Fluctuating voltages do cause fluctuating magnetic fields but every pump we use in the hobby puts magnetic fields into the water, just more localized. It would need much more testing to determine if this could actually be a problem.

The main reason I recommend running a ground probe with a GFCI is that if you get a fault voltage it will immediately de-energize the faulted component and let you know you have a serious problem. From a fish/coral perspective, I worry much more about overheated plastic byproducts and exposed copper wiring than I do about voltage.

 

[Octane13]

Thanks, we'll see what happens but the nem does look marginally better already. The standing voltage now is ~.6 which could easily be magnets. I guess Ill keep an eye on things. low voltage may have been an irritant

 

[scottedontknow]

Grounding probe, grounding probe, grounding probe!!! any stray voltage can cause issues, if it can cause fish to stress out then it can absolutely do damage to nems and corals!

 

[iko2thdk]

My fish don't scratch or behave strangely. My water parameters are ph 8.2-8.3 Alk 8.5 Calc 1450 Temp 78 Phos w ULR Hanna .03 Nitrates around 10 or so. I've lost a few fish, one in particular, a gem tang that just stopped eating and was dead in two days and a clown that jumped out and landed on the netting above my tank effectively drying it out. All my softies and my Nem have done well, the anemone split in two and both halves are shared by remaining clownfish. (2 of them) My LPS corals do not seems to thrive or grow and eventually shrink back to nothing. Lighting is a combo of AI Hydra 26s and T5s.

I just tested voltage in my tank. On the power bar and wall outlet its about 4.0 volts. On the eb brick which has most of the controllable voltage consumers it is 0. My LFS suggested it was stray voltage from my Jebao return pump, but 4 volts doesn't seem like alot.

So, WHY DON'T LPS do well. Getting frustrated not able to keep stonies like hammers torches and the like. HELP.

 

[Crustaceon]

Eh, I’ve had stray voltage like you described and my critters were fine. It’s probably because unlike me, they’re not grounded to anything. Secondly, if I hear “stn” I immediately think “phosphates bottomed out”. That’s just me.

 

[Michael White]

I was an electician for 10 years before I decided to get into business management. Any stray voltage sources should be investigated. All equipment in contact with aquarium water should be connected to a GFCI. A grounding probe is adviseable, for extra safety factor. However, any electric motor running in the water column, or heater will induce some amount of stray voltage into the tank, but that inherently has little to no ability to introduce current(the flow of electricity with some magnitude). Voltage is just electrical potential that is relative to two objects. Even a wire in your water connected to a water pipe is a good enough ground to absorb the induced voltage. However, if you have faulty equipment, a grounded tank will conduct current, which should trip your gfci. Try to ground the tank see if the gfci trips, if not, re measure tank voltage from your water to the ground you’re using. If you have a voltage reading, you have deffective equipment. If not, it’s just induced and nothing to worry about. Current is what causes damage, voltage just feels uncomfortable. In a tank with a grounding probe, voltage will not be a measurable induced voltage in the tank, and if there is an actual voltage source it will trip the gfci or breaker to prevent you, or your livestock from being shocked.

 

[Lasse]

I run the wood stove and it gets way warmer

Have you run that the last months or only now without a heater?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Octane13]

Have you run that the last months or only now without a heater?

Sincerely Lasse

Heater was replaced but I can easily get the room to 78 with the stove on if that answers the question. I don't think you could run full time without a heater as the temp would fluctuate way too often.

 

[Lasse]

I was more thinking of gases from the stove as a cause for your problems - not stray voltage

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Michael White]

I was more thinking of gases from the stove as a cause for your problems - not stray voltage

Sincerely Lasse

I ran a 150 in a house with a woodstove when I lived in New England. I had a sump in the stand and the tank was about 15’ away but in the same room. Per a friends reccomendation I kept the glass tops on during the winter. Tried running without them for a month while using the woodstove and my corals showed almost no polyp extension. Put the lids back on and they opened up. There definitely seems to be something about gases or particulate in the air that negatively effected that tank. I have read multiple accounts of others with similar experiences with reef tanks and wood stoves. I still stress proper grounding and eliminating stray voltage in your tank. Regardless of the fish and coral, it only takes 20 milliamps to cause labored breathing and erratic heart rate and only 100 milliamps(0.1 amps) to stop your heart if current travels across your chest. Since most of us often put both hands in out tank, or hold onto something and lean in while doing work in our tank, we are almost always going to experience current flow across our chest if their is an electric fault in our tank.

 

[Octane13]

I ran a 150 in a house with a woodstove when I lived in New England. I had a sump in the stand and the tank was about 15’ away but in the same room. Per a friends reccomendation I kept the glass tops on during the winter. Tried running without them for a month while using the woodstove and my corals showed almost no polyp extension. Put the lids back on and they opened up. There definitely seems to be something about gases or particulate in the air that negatively effected that tank. I have read multiple accounts of others with similar experiences with reef tanks and wood stoves. I still stress proper grounding and eliminating stray voltage in your tank. Regardless of the fish and coral, it only takes 20 milliamps to cause labored breathing and erratic heart rate and only 100 milliamps(0.1 amps) to stop your heart if current travels across your chest. Since most of us often put both hands in out tank, or hold onto something and lean in while doing work in our tank, we are almost always going to experience current flow across our chest if their is an electric fault in our tank.

Interesting about PE. I have noticed lately it has been lacking. Haven't made any changes other than running the stove multiple days in a row.

 

[Brandon3152134]

Any voltage is bad. Heaters are very common culprits but damage and fish jumping can be greatly reduced with a 12 dollar grounding probe.

 

[20 gallon nano]

Back story,
Have had a heck of a time keeping SPS lately and Have lost 1 nem "large" (had for months) and one that may be on its way out... The SPS thing has been an issue for a couple months, got a few frags from a friend and all died within a week some of my other SPS started to STN. Fast fwd to this past weekend when I was fishing a stray snail out of my overflow. It felt like burning in a cut I had on my finger. Thought maybe I'll put on a glove, still happened every now and then. I dismissed it as the cut. Three days ago two of my nems (newest) started to not look so good. Yesterday one died and the other started to look wilted and closed up. But It looked ok before work. So I checked for voltage and I was getting anywhere from 1.5 constant to a surge of 5v. Do you think this could cause my issues.

I have since located the culprit (heater) and removed. I believe the nem looks ok at night bc I run the wood stove and it gets way warmer so both heaters did not need to be on. I hesitated to pull either nem afraid it would cause further stress and kill a potentially savable animal. What do you think?

How did you check the voltage?