How much water turn over through sump?

[USMC 4 LIFE]

How fast or slow should water flow through a sump?
I have read that the turn over rate should be around "X" number of times, but wanted to confirm from an indecent source.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

I prefer 3-5x.

 

[Fudsey]

All the sellers recommend 5-10X But that might just be a push???

 

[TaylorPilot]

To me the answer is as much as your system will flow while still being silent. If properly designed you'd be surprised how much it can flow.

 

[skim]

I like to base it on tank size and skimmer size ( meaning water flow through the skimmer, ideally 1 x/hr. ) From 5 to 120 even 150 could be considered at a rate 1 to 3 times and 150 and up I would say 3 to 5 times. You don't want it too fast as you want time for your skimmer and reactors to do their job. Now this is just my opinion and there are many. This why it is good to have a pump that you can adjust and try what works best for you. Even when it comes to water movement in the aquarium there are many factors to consider. Amount of rock and rock work, amount of Corals, open space from glass front and back. If it is a fairly open concept/layout you most likely will not need 25x flow and 10 to 15 would do and even in many situations you may not need to increase flow but the number of units creating the flow in more areas. Anyhow I hope this be of some help.

 

[Brew12]

To me the answer is as much as your system will flow while still being silent. If properly designed you'd be surprised how much it can flow.

Unless you have someone build you a custom sump kit so you can have a large refugium and grow macro algae that prefers moderate flow. Then you might want a slightly lower flow in your sump and make up for it by using more flow from powerheads.

 

[cromag27 Verified Sponsor]

Some can handle it, most can't.

All the sellers recommend 5-10X But that might just be a push???

 

[TaylorPilot]

Unless you have someone build you a custom sump kit so you can have a large refugium and grow macro algae that prefers moderate flow. Then you might want a slightly lower flow in your sump and make up for it by using more flow from powerheads.

I also think it doesn't scale well. What I mean is it's easy to do a 10x turn over on a 40b. 400 gph is a trickle. But 10x on a 300 DD is hard to do quietly.

 

[mcarroll]

Ya....2x to 4x...maybe up to 5x is fine. Beyond that you tend to get into noise and bubble issues, plus you're wasting power.

If you do the return this way and oversize your skimmer how most folks to, you'll notice that the return flow and skimmer flow are both at about the same rate. Perfect.

2¢

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I read many articles stating 5X turn over was ideal. That's what I currently have it at give or take a bit. And logically I thought that was sufficient since I wouldn't want the water to bypass any important filtration that's in the sump. Additionally, I noticed like taylorpilot and mcarroll mentioned as I slowly increase the flow of the return pump micro bubbles increase dramatically, the overflow (stockman standpipe style) gets louder along with the drain pipe to the sump.

Thanks a lot. I just wanted to verify information to ensure that the very basis of my aquarium were running accordingly to maximize my success in keeping a healthy livestock. And once again your input was spot on.

Time for beer and football now.

 

[mcarroll]

You could safely take that x5 flow down to x2 and still have a functional system....not that you would, but you could.

Being all the way at x5 doesn't necessarily buy you much vs x2, in other words.

 

[jsker]

A nice thing about a DC pump is that the pump can be regulated. Purchase a pump that is more than you need, the pump can always be adjust down, instead of purchasing to small of a pump and repurchasing again.

 

[mcarroll]

Every time I've tried to look up an unbiased/third party analysis of whether AC or DC water pumps are "better" it seems like "do you have a DC power supply or AC power supply?" is always the first question. In other words it's apparently better to work with whatever mains power you have.

After that consideration, it seems like whether one is better than the other is totally dependent on application, pump and motor design. One does not seem inherently better or more efficient than the other. I've seen nothing to suggest that well-made, well-selected AC pumps can't be just as efficient.

Anyone have a guide to motors (or more hopefully pumps) that sheds light on AC vs DC and which is "better"?

 

[Brew12]

Every time I've tried to look up an unbiased/third party analysis of whether AC or DC water pumps are "better" it seems like "do you have a DC power supply or AC power supply?" is always the first question. In other words it's apparently better to work with whatever mains power you have.

After that consideration, it seems like whether one is better than the other is totally dependent on application, pump and motor design. One does not seem inherently better or more efficient than the other. I've seen nothing to suggest that well-made, well-selected AC pumps can't be just as efficient.

Anyone have a guide to motors (or more hopefully pumps) that sheds light on AC vs DC and which is "better"?

I don't think it is a matter of which one is "better". They are actually much more similar than you would think. The vast majority of AC return pumps are AC synchronous motors. The speed of a synchronous motor uses the following equation NP=120F where N is the speed, P is the number of motor poles it uses and F is your system frequency. So, a typical 4 pole motor will spin at 1800 RPM in the US or 1500 RPM in Europe (60hz vs 50hz).

The vast majority of DC pumps are actually AC synchronous motors. No, that is not a typo. The way the vast majority of them work is by using a rectifier/inverter combination. They take the 120V AC and rectify it into DC. They then take the DC and convert it to a variable frequency (and typically much lower voltage) AC. As this frequency changes the pump speed increases or decreases to match the frequency.

If you are going to run an AC pump at full capacity it will be more efficient than the equivalent DC pump because it doesn't have the rectifier/inverter losses. If you are going to throttle flow than the DC pump will be more efficient. The DC pump is also typically safer since you have a lower voltage source driving the pump if you use the in sump variety.


Does that help?

 

[llutin]

Could any member of this group , share a picture of your sump to see the design . I need to buy one but with algae refugium and I do not know how to design it . My main tank is 350 gallons. Thank you very much

 

[Brew12]

Could any member of this group , share a picture of your sump to see the design . I need to buy one but with algae refugium and I do not know how to design it . My main tank is 350 gallons. Thank you very much

I recommend talking to @TaylorPilot . He has an excellent base design and can probably help you with whatever you would want to do.

 

[AZDesertRat]

When you say 5X turnover, that is 5 times the display volume per hour. This is a pretty good starting point provided your sump is large enough to handle that. A 100G display with a 20G sump that is actually more like 12-15 gallons working volume when you leave room for backflow might not work so well. But the 100G display with a 40 breeder sump with 30 gallons working volume would have plenty of time to process the water through the skimmer and off gas any microbubbles so they don't travel back to the display.
I prefer a lower sump velocity or flow and let way more efficient wavemakers make up the bulk of the circulation in the display.

 

[trickyrich]

I use a 275 gallon water tote for my sump I like it.

 

[Justin D]

How fast or slow should water flow through a sump?
I have read that the turn over rate should be around "X" number of times, but wanted to confirm from an indecent source.

What size is your aquarium and what size is your sump what size is your drains and how many do you have?

 

[Rjramos]

What size is your aquarium and what size is your sump what size is your drains and how many do you have?

All that he said above and also are you gonna be using the main pump for just turnover or do you plan to feed something else like a skimmer off of it? Are you running a refugium also?