How NOT to start a nano reef

[Hemmdog]

Thank you for the detailed response! I'm going to stew on this for a day or two, and more importantly not try and respond at a very late hour when I should be asleep. lol. This is all great information and I appreciate it! More once I've digested, pun intended.

One quick question, I am using Hakari Marine-S, hopefully that qualifies as a "quality" pellet food?

As a quick update tonight, I got some new toys today! Sometimes I feel like I have fallen so far, getting excited about more accurate testing kits, but hey, we are all nerds somehow. Water parameters are as follows:

API:
pH – 8.4 ppm
Ammonia – 0 ppm
Nitrite – 0.5 ppm
Nitrate – 0 ppm
Phosphate – 0.25 ppm

NYOS:
Nitrate – 5-12 ppm
Phosphate – 0.2-0.3 ppm

Everything is looking pretty good. I love the discrepancy between the two Nitrate tests, so I will probably keep running both for a while to see if they are consistently inaccurate. It is *slightly* frustrating that my fancy new kit only narrowed me down to between two colors, but I am much happier with the results. Here is a quick update shot, nothing has changed recently. Oh, except our fire shrimp molted again today. That’s twice in 10 days since he was added, but he seems happy! A brief R2R search seemed to indicate that wasn’t an unheard rate of molting, and like everything else, there is no consensus on why the rates of molting can vary. Cheers!

Yes hakari is good ,PE is very good too.

 

[Medical_Reef]

Sure it’s decent food (if it’s a good brand) dehydrated and compressed together then added preservatives. The preservatives are full of phosphate which accumulates in your system if you only feed dry food. Also with dry food being compressed it has more calories than your standard mysis, which is good, but anything uneaten or that gets stuck under your rocks or anything is a lot more nutrients that it will slowly be letting out into your tank, fueling nussance algae and all kinds of undesirable stuff.
For me, if I feed pellets I find I need to clean my glass of algae film fairly often, with only frozen I rarely have to clean the glass. So if it’s doing that to help algae grow on the glass, it is also doing it in the water column and all over my tank.

I used to leave pellets for my fish sitter when I travel, but now I even find its better to take my time and explain my frozen thawing and feeding process to my fish sitter while I’m away. The fish’s colors are better, coral looks brighter and has better pe when I do not feed any dry food.

Auto feeders are a death wish, pellets accumulate moisture and stick together, then will all dump in your tank as one giant clump, bad things happen, especially if no one is at the tank to be able to siphon out all the extra pellets lol.

So I have a couple of questions and thoughts for you. I think the first would be on the over-feeding and accumulation of phosphates in the tank. Outside of the time that my toddler decided to dump a large amount of food in the tank, the amount of food that I put in (a pinch, a "wonderful" measuring tool) is usually eaten within 30 seconds. Switching over to the bare bottom tank has also made it very easy to keep track of the pellets, as the ones that don't get eaten I can see on the bottom of the tank and easily siphon out. I also tend to blow the rock crevices and the edge of the Seaboard out a couple times a week and suck out the detritus. My cleaner shrimp, however, literally eats every single pellet that finds its way to the bottom. I even watched him spend 10 minutes fighting to get the stray pellets out of the small gap between the glass and the Seaboard, and he was very successful. I agree I am probably getting some that wind up in the rock, but I think it is pretty minimal, so hopefully the over feeding isn't an issue. That being said, is the idea here that even if the fish eat all of the food, it is still more calorically (and thus phosphate) dense, so the fish poop from pellets contains more nutrients than the fish poop from mysis?

I am definitely interested in the nuisance algae growth aspect of this equation, I will have to keep an eye on things moving forward in regards to the food used, and I agree that an auto-feeder accident can be disastrous, especially in a 15-gallon tank, so it is something to strongly consider.

This may be something that I have made-up or imagine I read, and while I know that pellets might not be the best option either, I was under the impression that mysis were more of a "treat" food and don't represent a complete diet for the fish? Maybe the better question is, in an ideal setting what does a complete feeding regimen look like? My other concern with mysis cubes when compared to adding pellets is that a whole cube of mysis is definitely an excess of food, and while I do thaw and store the rest in the fridge to add later, it doesn't take more than a day or two before it starts to smell. I worry that I am going to do the fish more harm by feeding them rotten shrimp than feeding pellets. If I could go longer using the same cube I would be more inclined to do that more often. Or maybe I just underestimate how many calories there are in pellets when compared to mysis, and I could feed substantially more mysis in one sitting?

I appreciate any and all thoughts. One of these days I will go do some more thorough research myself, but it is exam season and thus, it is not the time.

 

[Algaewarrior]

I feed mine a mixture of mysis and brine shrimp. I only have 3 fish at the moment so I cut the cubes into thirds. It keeps the frozen shrimp from rotting and smelling bad. The fish seem happy and healthy.

 

[Medical_Reef]

I feed mine a mixture of mysis and brine shrimp. I only have 3 fish at the moment so I cut the cubes into thirds. It keeps the frozen shrimp from rotting and smelling bad. The fish seem happy and healthy.

That's a great idea, thank you! I think my fish could probably manage 1/3 cube of mysis a day with a little brine shrimp. Every time I add food they act like they've never eaten before. The largest clown fish has even gotten to the point that he'll gently nibble on my fingers while waiting for me to release the pellets.

 

[Medical_Reef]

Well, I am very happy with the sea lettuce. Nitrites are also finally gone. Things are running smoothly. Water parameters are as follows:

API:
pH – 8.2 ppm
Ammonia – 0 ppm
Nitrite – 0 ppm
Nitrate – 0 ppm
Phosphate – 0.25 ppm

NYOS:
Nitrate – 5 ppm
Phosphate – 0.15 ppm

I was getting some nuisance algae growth in the refugium, which I think can be expected. On such a small system it is pretty straight forward to clean out, so not a big deal.

On a side note, I have noticed some interesting aggressions in the tank the past two weeks. Fleur the damsel, as expected, thinks that she can be pretty tough. However, the clown twins don’t take any crap from her, so she goes after the royal gramma instead. The gramma is very adept at fending her off and if necessary, diving into her little hole in a flash, so I am not worried about her. What is fascinating, however, is that the larger clown has taken it upon himself to police the damsel. At times, I've seen the damsel start to chase the gramma around the tank only to have George race over from the other side of the tank and defend the gramma from further harassing. The clown will usually drive the damsel around the rock for a lap or two just to make a point, and then all will return to status quo.

Everybody avoids the shrimp. Hagrid has that effect on people.



BRS/WWC cycle status: Cycle started on January 30thwith Fritz 900, dry rock, marine pure and more rock rubble in the sump. Filtration includes a filter sock, carbon, and sea lettuce from algae barn in the refugium.

Schedule:
April 1st– add coralline algae source
April 15th– turn the lights on the display, add CUC as needed
June 1st– 4-month cycle is officially “completed”
*assess coralline algae growth
*potentially add starter corals

 

[JacquieBeginnerReef]

Thanks for this! Our tanks are about the same age, and I’m thinking I can learn from your journey. I shall follow

 

[Genetics]

You’ve had 10 years worth of mishaps occur in a relatively small time frame, but it looks like you’ve solved and learned from each.

Instead of using mysis shrimp, why not make your own frozen food? In the past I would go to the market grab shrimp, some fish, and garlic extract. Using a blender I would make a homogenous mixture that I would aliquot into ziplock bags and freeze them in short stacks. Much like the look of a pancake. Then I would just go into the freezer and break off pieces for feeding. This was for use on a much larger aquarium though and I would worry the slurry by blender would add small particulates to your water column that may increase your nitrate/phosphate load.

To adapt to your aquarium, I would definitely wash the blended foods with your RO to remove some of the fine particulate. Or when you break a piece off to feed, soak it in RO and only feed the larger pieces.

 

[Medical_Reef]

Thanks for this! Our tanks are about the same age, and I’m thinking I can learn from your journey. I shall follow

Thank you! I read through your thread and it looks like you've had a smoother ride than I have!

 

[Medical_Reef]

You’ve had 10 years worth of mishaps occur in a relatively small time frame, but it looks like you’ve solved and learned from each.

Instead of using mysis shrimp, why not make your own frozen food? In the past I would go to the market grab shrimp, some fish, and garlic extract. Using a blender I would make a homogenous mixture that I would aliquot into ziplock bags and freeze them in short stacks. Much like the look of a pancake. Then I would just go into the freezer and break off pieces for feeding. This was for use on a much larger aquarium though and I would worry the slurry by blender would add small particulates to your water column that may increase your nitrate/phosphate load.

To adapt to your aquarium, I would definitely wash the blended foods with your RO to remove some of the fine particulate. Or when you break a piece off to feed, soak it in RO and only feed the larger pieces.

Hopefully this means I got all of my bad karma out of the way and I can have a nice, relaxing 10 years!

How long does the homemade fish-food usually last in the freezer before it shouldn't be used anymore? I've definitely thought about going that way in the future, especially when I am stocked with corals. I do agree the small particulates in the tank may increase my nutrient load, but once I have a healthy coral population to take those up it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

I will say that right now I am enjoying the ease of pellets and mysis for two big reasons: I don't have to go through the mess of making my own food, but more importantly, I can easily track all of the food that goes into the tank and make sure it gets eaten. This is a huge advantage to having a bare bottom tank for sure.

Thanks for your thoughts! I am always open to suggestions.

 

[Medical_Reef]

Not much of an update tonight, it's finals week for our last class before board study, but I do have a brief confession:

I have pods.


Glad to get that off my chest. I felt weird saying that. I feel like I need to go see the doc and discuss treatment plans now. It took just about two weeks since starting the refugium up for me to see the pods. I've been inconsistently feeding Phytoplankton most nights when I feed the fish, so maybe that helped? Either way, I am happy to see the pods in the refugium! I am curious to see if they can make it into the display tank eventually, as there is a pretty thick sponge at the bottom of the middle chamber. Only time will tell.

I have noticed some interesting spots (?) on the bottom of the tank and peppered all over the rock. They don't seem to move so I don't think they are pods. Sponges maybe? Still no lights on the tank besides ambient lighting and refugium spill over. I haven't investigated too closely yet, I'm going to see if they scrub off during the next water change.

 

[Medical_Reef]

According to the BRS/WWC 4-month cycle video, today was the time to add coralline algae. Okay, actually it was supposed to be on the 1st, but the stuff I ordered didn’t get in until today, so its close enough. I decided to go with the “Purple Helix Coralline Algae in a Bottle” by ARC knowing full-well that opinions on this product vary wildly on R2R. I know, a cheap alternative would be to get scrapings from a local tank, but the hobby isn’t huge down here and the couple people I have bought corals from in the past had noticeable algae and dino problems, so I am doing my best to delay the introduction of “pests” into the tank. Thus, bottled coralline algae was the way for me.

The sea lettuce is doing a good job of keeping nitrates at bay. Prior to doing my water change tonight the water parameters were as follows:

API:
pH – 8.2 ppm
Ammonia – 0 ppm
Nitrite – 0 ppm
Nitrate – 0 ppm

NYOS:
Nitrate – 3 ppm
Phosphate – 0.30 ppm

Phosphates seem to be climbing pretty steadily, having doubled since I last checked a week ago. This seems to be in line with the discussion we had on pellet food lately. Looks like it might be time to add some GFO back to the tank. I need to do some more reading, but I was under the impression that macro algae tended to take in phosphate as well as nitrates? Am I misinformed? Also, if anyone has any recommendations on how much GFO to add and how long to run it on such a small system I would greatly appreciate it. Using the BRS calculator, I am coming up with 3 tbsp replaced every 4-8 weeks. I’ll start there and monitor the phosphate as I go.

In any case, it looks like the values I am shooting for are <.2 ppm Nitrates and <.03 Phosphates, according to Randy Holmes-Farley. Chime in if you see anything wrong with those goals.

I’ve also included a little picture of everything that I blasted off the rocks just prior to doing my water change. Yuck.

BRS/WWC cycle status: Cycle started on January 30thwith Fritz 900, dry rock, marine pure and rock rubble in the sump. Filtration includes a filter sock, carbon, GFO, and sea lettuce from algae barn in the refugium. On April 5th, I added Purple Helix coralline algae in a bottle from ARC.

Schedule:
April 15th – turn the lights on the display, add CUC as needed
June 1st – 4-month cycle is officially “completed”
*assess coralline algae growth
*potentially add starter corals

 

[Medical_Reef]

I know there are a few of you who are tagging along just waiting for the next time I mess up horribly. Today is not that day! Here is to years of constant disappointment.

Just a couple updates this evening. I had been waiting to get the GFO up and running because the smallest media bag that BRS carries is way too big for a nano tank. I’ve been using them, but it is a hassle to fill it 1/10th of the way full and roll the bag up. The alternative? Nylon tea bags. Each one holds a tablespoon perfectly.

Prior to tossing the bags in, I tested the water again to see how much higher the phosphates were at this point. Much to my surprise they were lower:

NYOS:
Nitrate – 1 ppm
Phosphate – 0.15 ppm

So, in the span of two weeks I went from 0.15 ppm up to 0.30 and back down to 0.15. Curious for sure. Nitrates keep steadily decreasing and I haven’t changed anything about my feeding habits or source of food, so we’ll see how this continues. In light of this, I decided to just start with one tablespoon of GFO and track the phosphates in the tank over the next week. If Nitrates fall any further, I will also finally put the macro on a timer, as I have been running it 24/7 up to this point.

In a strange complication, I also found a ton of salt on the wall right behind my tank which was pretty shocking. I didn’t think I was getting that much splashing though the overflow but apparently, I was very wrong. My current temporary solution is to use a cutting board to absorb the salt instead of the wall. Not quite sure what to do here long-term actually. I’m open to suggestions.

I also finally busted out the Prime and got it attached to the tank! Lights don’t come on until Monday, but I’ve been dying to see it and figured I’d go ahead and open her up tonight. I also ordered a diffuser from 3DReefing which does an amazing job of smoothing out the light. The disco effect is huge on the white Seaboard bottom, but with the diffuser the individual colors are barely visible and the shimmer is diminished. The thick screen still shows some slight shadows so I may swap out the screen material down the road, but since I have no corals at the moment it’s no big deal. I named my tank in the MyAI app appropriately, considering the journey thus far.

The first shot is without the diffuser and the second is with it on.

Things seem to be good! Lights come on Monday morning. That’s when its gonna get real ugly. I’m honestly going to have very little idea what the actual par is, so I am going to go off of the BRS video for a close approximation, under-power it slightly from that, and hopefully rent a par meter this summer before the corals go in.

I live to reef another day!

BRS/WWC cycle status: Cycle started on January 30th with Fritz 900, dry rock, marine pure and rock rubble in the sump. Filtration includes a filter sock, carbon, GFO, and sea lettuce from algae barn in the refugium. On April 5th I added Purple Helix coralline algae in a bottle from ARC.

Schedule:
April 15th – turn the lights on the display, add CUC as needed
June 1st – 4-month cycle is officially “completed”
*assess coralline algae growth
*potentially add starter corals

 

[Medical_Reef]

NYOS:
Nitrate – <1 ppm
Phosphate – 0.10 ppm

I’m going to call this a success on two fronts: My first goal was to get nitrate and phosphate completely under control before the display lights come on, and I have reached the point where I need to turn off the fuge light because they are low enough. Secondly, it looks like the little bag of GFO is going to be a great way to slowly lower phosphates in a controlled manner. After having one tablespoon of it in the tank for 48 hours the phosphate dropped from 0.15 to 0.10. Looks like a couple more days and I should be good to take it out!

I need to do a little more reading as I previously thought I needed to shoot for <.2 ppm nitrates and <.03 phosphates, but for the moment I am going to amend this to <1 ppm nitrates and <.03 phosphates considering the fact that my test kit only gives me a 1 or a 0 reading for nitrate. So, for now, nitrates are where they need to be, and phosphates need to come a little bit lower. In the meantime, out goes a cup of sea lettuce!

BRS/WWC cycle status: Cycle started on January 30th with Fritz 900, dry rock, marine pure and rock rubble in the sump. Filtration includes a filter sock, carbon, GFO, and sea lettuce from algae barn in the refugium. On April 5th I added Purple Helix coralline algae in a bottle from ARC.

Schedule:
April 15th – turn the lights on the display, add CUC as needed
June 1st – 4-month cycle is officially “completed”
*assess coralline algae growth
*potentially add starter corals

 

[Medical_Reef]

Well, one step forward, two steps back. Only in a minor sense though. The good news is the lights have been on since Monday and I am happy with the Prime and the diffuser. It’s pretty straight forward to use, especially since I just downloaded the settings from David Saxby and let it go! I am still trying to figure out if there is a way to decrease the intensity of the lights as a whole, much like on the Radions where you would set the percentages for each channel but then choose what percent of maximum you wanted the whole schedule to run. It’s no rush to figure it out though, considering I won’t have coral in it for another couple months.

Now for the disappointing news. With the previous tests results showing low nutrients, I decided to run the fuge on a reduced schedule and finally set up the auto feeder in preparation for my time away this summer. Unfortunately, the food was too much, or the fuge needs more time, or probably both, but the nitrates and phosphates both climbed right back up.

NYOS:
Nitrate – 5 ppm
Phosphate – 0.20 ppm

So, while not a huge problem, it can become one if it continues. This is why they say a larger tank is easier, I am assuming, because you wouldn’t expect your nutrients to more than double in a couple of days. For me, it means I am cutting back on the feeding routine and upping the fuge light back to 24/7 until things are back in order.

Reefing is not easy. And I’ve only got 15 gallons, 4 fish a shrimp, and no corals. lol

BRS/WWC cycle status: Cycle started on January 30th with Fritz 900, dry rock, marine pure and rock rubble in the sump. Filtration includes a filter sock, carbon, GFO, and sea lettuce from algae barn in the refugium. On April 5th I added Purple Helix coralline algae in a bottle from ARC. AI Prime+ running David Saxby’s schedule started on April 15th.

Schedule:
June 1st – 4-month cycle is officially “completed”
*add CUC as needed
*assess coralline algae growth
*potentially add starter corals

 

[Medical_Reef]

On a side note, I should say thank you!! My thread officially has over 2000 views, which means it has been viewed many more times than my dissertation. Glad you are all enjoying the ride. Now I need to go lay in bed and consider how valuable my dissertation was.

 

[Genetics]

On a side note, I should say thank you!! My thread officially has over 2000 views, which means it has been viewed many more times than my dissertation. Glad you are all enjoying the ride. Now I need to go lay in bed and consider how valuable my dissertation was.

So true. But you have to entertain that the hobby has people interested from all over the world. Whereas your dissertation had people... well interested from all over the world.

It’s going to be a sleepless night for more than one.

 

[Medical_Reef]

So true. But you have to entertain that the hobby has people interested from all over the world. Whereas your dissertation had people... well interested from all over the world.

It’s going to be a sleepless night for more than one.

Here I was thinking that researching lasers and the female reproductive system would help spark some interest! Though it doesn’t help when you can’t see the laser and I’m studying the mouse...

I think that is one aspect of research that people definitely don’t grasp unless you’ve been involved to some degree, is just how narrow your focus is and how few people are doing something similar or even care about what you do. It’s actually one reason I went to medical school, it just wasn’t rewarding enough for me to spend years pushing the knowledge forward in minute steps, I don’t have the right temperament. I’d rather have small successes daily with individual people. In my opinion, research is hard because you have to have such a long-term view. Harder to be a scientist than a doctor.

 

[Genetics]

I think if you want a family and even time for a hobby you made a wise decision. I became convinced that the constant worry of funding would drive me mad.

Back to the hobby, the diffuser seemed to make a huge difference in the disco effect of the LEDs.

 

[Medical_Reef]

I think if you want a family and even time for a hobby you made a wise decision. I became convinced that the constant worry of funding would drive me mad.

Back to the hobby, the diffuser seemed to make a huge difference in the disco effect of the LEDs.

That too sir. Always have to fight for your job.

The diffuser is awesome. I have a nice, subtle shimmer in the tank with no noticeable red or green lights. I have no idea what the par is (which I’ll admit is very hard for the science part of me to stomach) so I’ll probably rent a meter this summer. I’m hopeful this setup will produce results.

 

[Medical_Reef]

Just a couple quick updates tonight. We had to take the damsel back to the fish store. She was a pretty model citizen for a couple weeks, but just as they are known to do, she decided the entire 15 gallon tank was hers. The clowns could hold their own just fine, but the royal gramma hadn't been able to leave the little hole in the rock for more than a few seconds for a while now. While the damsel was very pretty under the blue lights, the gramma is the fish we really wanted long term. It was amazing how fast the clowns and the gramma adjusted to life without the damsel. As soon as she left, all three started leisurely cruising the tank. It was the right move.

The tank is also getting ugly! Hurray!

It's amazing how much easier it is to see all of the lovely diatoms when a white Seaboard bottom is used... So we went and grabbed 4 astrea snails and a little hermit, since the boys love the crab. I was looking for torches snails since they can self right, but I am thinking we'll probably be okay with these guys. While you can easily see diatoms on the bottom, you can also easily see the tracks the snails are blazing through them. It will be cool to watch just how affective they are.

We also have some interesting algae growing in the refugium. I'll have to do some more reading when my board exam is over, but it looks like right where the water is spilling into the middle compartment there is a big clump of stringy, green and brown algae growing in the turbulent water. I'm assuming this isn't sea lettuce, unless it is just the form that is takes in rapidly flowing water. But honestly, it's in the refuguim and doing a great job of tackling nutrients, so I don't care too much.

That's all for tonight! I'm interested to see if my wife decides to name the snails and hermit crab...