How to add a sump?

[Ian Baxter]

Not sure if this goes here, but how would I add a larger sump in my stand when the tank is already full? I have a 120 gallon FOWLR tank with a 10 gallon sump and a large canister filter. It’s a pain to keep cleaning the canister, so I was thinking of getting a larger sum. Just have no idea got to get one under the tank as I can’t move it due to weight. The width of the openings where the doors are is 18.25, 18.75, and 18.25 in. The depth between posts is 14.75 in.
Any help is appreciated.

 

[ndrwater]

Sounds like it might be a bit of a pain, but... Draining, and temporarily pulling one of the center supports to get a larger sump in might be your best option. I definitely would NOT try this with the tank full.
2nd option, is to use 2 smaller sumps connected. You might be able to get them in without removing a center brace.
I have seen several setups like that. Using a 2" or larger connection between the 2 smaller sumps should keep them acting as one.

 

[kwirky]

Some people get an incredibly powerful pump capable of handling lots of head pressure, put holes in the walls & floor, and run a huge sump in the basement. Or run piping through walls and locate the sump in another room, again with a powerful return pump.

 

[Ian Baxter]

Sounds like it might be a bit of a pain, but... Draining, and temporarily pulling one of the center supports to get a larger sump in might be your best option. I definitely would NOT try this with the tank full.
2nd option, is to use 2 smaller sumps connected. You might be able to get them in without removing a center brace.
I have seen several setups like that. Using a 2" or larger connection between the 2 smaller sumps should keep them acting as one.

I think the draining would be too much work and I would be worried about the fish. How would you connect the two sumps? Is the 2" or larger connection like a tube drilled between the two?

 

[Ian Baxter]

Some people get an incredibly powerful pump capable of handling lots of head pressure, put holes in the walls & floor, and run a huge sump in the basement. Or run piping through walls and locate the sump in another room, again with a powerful return pump.

Yes, I have seen that, but it's wouldn't work in my situation as the garage is behind it and in CA if we drill through the fire wall it would void out homeowners policy. I was thinking of possibly building a cabinet next to the tank to store it. It may be my best/easiest option.

 

[ndrwater]

I think the draining would be too much work and I would be worried about the fish. How would you connect the two sumps? Is the 2" or larger connection like a tube drilled between the two?

Exactly. Bulkhead in each sump, pipe between the two. If going that route, I'd personally put a union between the sumps.. easy to do beforehand, not so much after...

 

[W1ngz]

None of the 'easy' ways to do this are the best way. You can add a sump next to it in another cabinet, but it will be more clutter and stuff and wires and pipes. Do you want that in your living space?

You could do the two smaller tanks with plumbing between them, but this increases the risk of leaks and other problems. Rigid plumbing beween two smaller tanks, if they are not somehow anchored together, risks torsion on the glass and a possible smashed panel from pressure stress.

IMO the most effective way to add a sump properly is to drain and empty the tank, drill it (make sure the glass isn't tempered), add an overflow, and put a properly sized sump underneath before placing the tank back on the stand.

 

[Waboss]

So I used to have a 75Gal sump and a 40Gal fuge under my 240. Instead of connecting them with ridged pipe (which I think would have worked fine in my application), I just had the sump elevated a few inches (2x4 frame/square under it) and then plumbed an "overflow" using 2 bulkheads and PVC to the 40 (bulkheads at the height I wanted in the last chamber's water level in the sump....you may have to elevate the first tank/sump more if you want a lower water level).

OR

I also tried splitting my drains, half to the sump and half to the 'fuge with returns on both. That also worked and would probably work for just "2 tank sump", even though probably not ideal. You could run reactors in one and skimmer in the other as long as your turn over is good.

 

[JumboShrimp]

As an option, Google Seamless Sump from Custom Aquariums. They come in various sizes, and pipe (tubing) together in many configurations. I like mine. Best wishes!

 

[Ian Baxter]

None of the 'easy' ways to do this are the best way. You can add a sump next to it in another cabinet, but it will be more clutter and stuff and wires and pipes. Do you want that in your living space?

You could do the two smaller tanks with plumbing between them, but this increases the risk of leaks and other problems. Rigid plumbing beween two smaller tanks, if they are not somehow anchored together, risks torsion on the glass and a possible smashed panel from pressure stress.

IMO the most effective way to add a sump properly is to drain and empty the tank, drill it (make sure the glass isn't tempered), add an overflow, and put a properly sized sump underneath before placing the tank back on the stand.

It’s in the formal living room which no one goes in except me and if someone comes through the front door. The tank is acrylic, so would that matter? I’m worried about the PBT and porcupine puffer stressing out.

 

[Ian Baxter]

As an option, Google Seamless Sump from Custom Aquariums. They come in various sizes, and pipe (tubing) together in many configurations. I like mine. Best wishes!

Do you have pics of yours I can check out?

 

[Ian Baxter]

So I used to have a 75Gal sump and a 40Gal fuge under my 240. Instead of connecting them with ridged pipe (which I think would have worked fine in my application), I just had the sump elevated a few inches (2x4 frame/square under it) and then plumbed an "overflow" using 2 bulkheads and PVC to the 40 (bulkheads at the height I wanted in the last chamber's water level in the sump....you may have to elevate the first tank/sump more if you want a lower water level).

OR

I also tried splitting my drains, half to the sump and half to the 'fuge with returns on both. That also worked and would probably work for just "2 tank sump", even though probably not ideal. You could run reactors in one and skimmer in the other as long as your turn over is good.

That’s a great idea since I already have two separate drains from my overflow box. It’s amazing how much I would have done differently had I started over.

 

[Ian Baxter]

Do you have pics of yours I can check out?

 

[Ian Baxter]

How many gallon sump would be ideal for a 120 DT?

 

[W1ngz]

How many gallon sump would be ideal for a 120 DT?

I'd think you'll be ok with something in the 30 to 40 gallon range, but it's more about having the space to put the equipment you want and to catch the back flow that gets siphoned down when the pumps stop.

That sort of volume might be hard to get to with the modular sump above, but like I said, it's about making space for what you want. I can't help but wonder if you could manage this with a few sterilite containers, some PVC pipe and uniseal bulkheads.

 

[ScottB]

Sounds like it might be a bit of a pain, but... Draining, and temporarily pulling one of the center supports to get a larger sump in might be your best option. I definitely would NOT try this with the tank full.
2nd option, is to use 2 smaller sumps connected. You might be able to get them in without removing a center brace.
I have seen several setups like that. Using a 2" or larger connection between the 2 smaller sumps should keep them acting as one.

Hi Ben,
I am trying to find threads describing two connected sumps but after > hour of skimming through threads I am getting dead ends. Any tips on how to do this? Here is an image of what I am thinking and a few questions.

 

[W1ngz]

I would build a mock-up of this using some sterilite storage totes and maxijet pumps.

Gravity will always win, so whatever tank is the lowest of them all needs to be able to catch all of the backflow from every tank that is raised above it when all the pumps are cut. That kind of water level may make it difficult to, say, maintain suitable water levels for a skimmer in that 39gal sump while still leaving enough open volume for backflow.

 

[ScottB]

I would build a mock-up of this using some sterilite storage totes and maxijet pumps.

Gravity will always win, so whatever tank is the lowest of them all needs to be able to catch all of the backflow from every tank that is raised above it when all the pumps are cut. That kind of water level may make it difficult to, say, maintain suitable water levels for a skimmer in that 39gal sump while still leaving enough open volume for backflow.

You are giving me some other ideas about safeguards. I have some Auto Aqua smart level sensors (and skimmer sensors) that will shut off the skimmer already operational. The hard part is total volume overflow of that lowest 39G sump. Scary. Argues more for the "same level" sump setup where I have more security with the overflow spread across the two sumps. I will have 200G of frag volume plus some portion of my 20G cube sump dumping otherwise.

Thanks to all for helping me process this. Would love to simply copycat another functional system but cannot find one to date.