How to avoid a big cycle when plumbing to existing system?

[jessezm]

Hey folks!

I've got a frag tank and refugium/sump that's been up and running for 4 months with about 100lbs of rock, and full filtration. I started the tank with cycled live rock so never really saw a cycle, and have been successfully keeping acros and other sps since it was up and running. The whole system is about 100 gallons more or less.

I have a large sulfur denitrator running on the sytem and do run a small amount of GFO and carbon. Also running a large protein skimmer (RO Regal 250 SSS)

Levels are consistent with zero detectable nitrates (per salifert, though I know there must be some since there is some GHA growing), and PO4 at .024 ppm per hanna ULR.

My question is this: I will soon be plumbing in a 150g tank to the system. I will be using live rock from the refugium, but will be introducing about 80 lbs of caribsea arag-alive sand. There are only a half dozen fish (4 clowns, a wrasse, a dottyback, and a small angel, and maybe one more this week).

How should I plan to try to avoid going through an additional cycle? Or is it anything to really worry about, given the current set up and conditions? Should I add in some marine pure blocks now for extra biofiltration maybe? I will probably be connecting the systems in a few weeks.

Thanks!

 

[richiero]

I used fritz turbo when i did my upgrade and lost nothing and that's with my fish and coral in bins for 4 days... went from a 75g to a 140g

 

[Alfrareef]

With the info you’ve provided, honestly don’t see a reason for having extra care. Just plumb it!

 

[ca1ore]

Or is it anything to really worry about, given the current set up and conditions?

That you are adding volume but mostly keeping the same bioload means there's nothing to worry about. I wouldn't even bother with the live-ish sand.

 

[Sailingeric]

I think you will be find. You are using cured rock and your bioload is the same. When I moved my fish and rock from a 29 gallon tank to a 75 gallon tank there was no change/cycle/spikes. If you were starting fresh with and there is no bacteria in the system and you are adding fish, RDWHAHB.

 

[brandon429]

I have a twelve page thread on how to do that wo loss, here it is, and my recommend summary below

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

the purpose of that thread is to do sandbed moves without recycling, we try and name the locus of every possible thing that could cause your cycle, such that testing for ammonia or nitrite is not needed at any point.

as I read your description, the current live rock in the frag tank can handle the new fish bioloading you are bringing in, so the new sand should simply be pre rinsed to perfect cloudlessness before you use it, even if rinsing did kill bacteria (it doesn't, we use tap in the thread on many tanks so we can rinse hours) it wont matter here, because the bioloading you are adding is a few fish and even the current live rock #'s in the frag tank can hold that, the sand isn't needed but will certainly bring in tons of bac anyway.

no additives are required, only pre rinsing of the new sand and that's not to stop a cycle its so you don't input unhelpful billowing silt into the tank that makes you have to wait weeks and mos for it to stop clouding upon the slightest disturbance

opting out of that torture is the other reason for the sand rinse thread, you are opting out of diatom headaches by rinsing. if you would take pics of your blending, we'd like to link there as yet another bed incorporation all complete.

The only way I could see doing something bad in this process is if massive amnts of detritus are disturbed and/or moved over in this transition process.

if you aren't dealing with cloudy items at any point in the presence of animals, then its a skip cycle move to simply add totally clean sand to a system that already has more than enough live rock to get the ammonia care done.

 

[jessezm]

Nice, thanks for the thoughtful responses, all! I will definitely read through the above linked thread. There is currently no sand in the system, as the 45g frag tank and the 33g refugium only hold cycled live rock (lots of stuff growing/living on it). There is some chaetomorpha in the refugium section of a separate sump as well. My plan prior to the change is to remove as much detritus as I can (blow off rocks, syphon sump and remote fuge) and let that settle. I'm going to have to take things offline for a bit while I move stuff around and do the final plumbing, but hopefully I can do enough pre-planning so that it all goes smoothly.

I wish I could take a week off of work to get it all done!

I'll start a thread to document the whole process (I already have a planning thread going but it kind of petered out, so maybe I'll just start fresh).

 

[Sallstrom]

Hi!

You might need some extra clean up crew grazing diatoms. We've done this a couple of times at work and usually all new substrate or rocks will get some diatoms even if the system is old and mature.

Also keep an eye on the nutrients, if they gets lower with more water and substrate. Might be a good environment for cyano or dinos. I like to add some nitrate in new tanks just to avoid too low values.

Good luck on the new tank!

 

[Sabellafella]

Hey folks!

I've got a frag tank and refugium/sump that's been up and running for 4 months with about 100lbs of rock, and full filtration. I started the tank with cycled live rock so never really saw a cycle, and have been successfully keeping acros and other sps since it was up and running. The whole system is about 100 gallons more or less.

I have a large sulfur denitrator running on the sytem and do run a small amount of GFO and carbon. Also running a large protein skimmer (RO Regal 250 SSS)

Levels are consistent with zero detectable nitrates (per salifert, though I know there must be some since there is some GHA growing), and PO4 at .024 ppm per hanna ULR.

My question is this: I will soon be plumbing in a 150g tank to the system. I will be using live rock from the refugium, but will be introducing about 80 lbs of caribsea arag-alive sand. There are only a half dozen fish (4 clowns, a wrasse, a dottyback, and a small angel, and maybe one more this week).

How should I plan to try to avoid going through an additional cycle? Or is it anything to really worry about, given the current set up and conditions? Should I add in some marine pure blocks now for extra biofiltration maybe? I will probably be connecting the systems in a few weeks.

Thanks!

If your adding an already established setup to a existing build, you'll need to watch out for things like temperature ph fluctuations, alk levels. You shouldn't give elevated ammonia a reason to be present (stirring rocks, detritus ect). Other then you should be fine, im in the same boat as you, the next 3 weeks ill have about 140 gallons plumbed into a 120. The quick changes are the easy part,monitoring the parameters during the change I think is most important.

 

[jessezm]

What are some of the good critters for grazing diatoms??

And should I add sandsifting animals right away?

 

[Sallstrom]

What are some of the good critters for grazing diatoms??

And should I add sandsifting animals right away?

I really like Ctenochaetus tangs. They do a great job grazing diatoms and many of them are quite small.

 

[jessezm]

I was thinking of avoiding tangs since they can be aggressive with new tank mates and I plan on keeping pretty peaceful fish (pyramid butterflies, watanabei angels, fairy and flasher wrasses, and anthias), but can you recommend one of that genus that is particularly peaceful and small? I know it can depend on the individual of course, and the initial size and sequence, but in general? Thanks!

 

[Sallstrom]

I was thinking of avoiding tangs since they can be aggressive with new tank mates and I plan on keeping pretty peaceful fish (pyramid butterflies, watanabei angels, fairy and flasher wrasses, and anthias), but can you recommend one of that genus that is particularly peaceful and small? I know it can depend on the individual of course, and the initial size and sequence, but in general? Thanks!

I haven't seen that much aggression among our Ctenochaetus, but we have quite large tanks
We mostly have Ctenochaetus strigosus.

 

[Super Fly]

When I changed my sump to a larger one with new pipes, my neon green nephthea wasn't happy and closed for about a week or so as it adjusted to the new sump/pipes. Then eventually it opened back up. Otherwise the rest of livestock was fine.