How to Build a Sump-less Reef tank?

[vadryn]

Say you are starting a new tank that's at least 75g. Not drilled. No room for a sump. What's your strategy to setup filtration for a stand-alone system you want running for 10+ years? As a display tank, what's the "minimum" so you don't have a ton of hardware cluttering your view, but still have a stable, vibrant ecosystem? In-tank skimmer? In-tank refugium? Bio-Pellet Reactor? Carbon? GFO? Mechanical filtration? What if there's no room for HOB?

What kind of system do you setup?

 

[ReeferHD]

i'd probably run the largest aquaclear filter available, on top of that i'd have the tank setup as a semi-macroalgae reef for extra nutrient export.

 

[Quietman]

Welcome.

Few ways to do it - you've got one already. In-tank and HOB equipment. There's nothing you can't find to run a traditional Berlin (equipment focused) setup without an in tank or HOB option (BRS has good series with HOB/In-tank "5 Min Guide" I think). You've already got the tank so AIO option is limited to inserts but they look very nice still need equipment that fits. Then there's deep sand beds to handle your nutrients - some don't need skimmers and they normally require low flow, somewhat limited livestock, 4-5 inches of sand in the bottom and not too much live rock. There's all kinds of design/operating rules on various options for DSBs. This is one of few that report long term - years - low maintenance (not no maintenance) success - however also high dissatisfaction numbers because it has to be setup correctly and run within the design (you can't just add on more gear). Lastly, canister filter and probably heavy on water changes at least early on - cons are canister maintenance which isn't too bad. I think those are the major no sump options. I left out continual water changes - not practical unless you live on the ocean.

Full disclosure - my next will be sumpless but haven't decided on which method - leaning towards DSB but I've talked myself out of that half a dozen times already. Also, if you go less demanding corals right off the bat (softies) it'll be much easier to be successful as they grow larger faster and add stability (IMO) - then shift over to LPS/SPS if you wish.

Good Luck!

 

[bushdoc]

When you calculate how much your reef system costs you, you will find out that tank itself is not the highest expense. Good skimmer can cost you a lot, so lights and other peripherals. Sure it’s possible to run 75 gal reef without sump, but I wouldn’t.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

AIO system would be my choice. Waterbox sells some of the big boy aio's. I considered one, once upon a time.

 

[fishyjoes]

If you don't want (or can't fit) any hang on back equipment you might see if there is any "drop in all in one" kit for a 75 gallon (or see if somebody is willing to custom make one for you - or fabricate one yourself).

That's the equipment side. For stocking, you probably have to go rather light on the fish stocking so as not to generate too much waste (which will be a challenge to export without tons of water changes)

 

[ReefGeezer]

I might use 100% live rock and live sand, an ATO, a couple good power heads like Gyres, Tunze, or MP40, and a bunch of soft corals, photosynthetic Gorgonians, Clams, and maybe some macroalgae. Oh, and quality lighting. You could even make this system support LPS and some SPS corals with a little extra effort. If the tank is in a temperature controlled room you really don't need a heater. Keep one handy for emergencies though. Set up correctly, you could produce a really clean look as far as equipment is concerned.

This system relies on the organisms in the tank to manage nutrients. You would have to be careful when adding things that increase nutrients, like fish, in order to keep a balance. If you are going to want a lot of fish and don't want a bunch of hang on stuff, a sump would be helpful.

 

[docforestal]

My 55 is sumpless, i have a hob filter with carbon and small amount of macro and a skimmer, good water flow and good amount of rock and sand to act as filters - and then water changes - sumps are great to put equipment but i have often not had the space myself.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Tunze makes a complete line of internal skimmers, mechanical & biological filters, automatic top offs and circulation pumps. This is an excellent product for your application and I have run one of their systems for many years without having problems. I am building a new tank and I will be using their products in a sump this time.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Run it like a freshwater tank with a canister filter. Take out the sponge media and just use ceramic and filter floss that you can dump. Also, add your carbon and GFO in there.

 

[vlangel]

Welcome.

Few ways to do it - you've got one already. In-tank and HOB equipment. There's nothing you can't find to run a traditional Berlin (equipment focused) setup without an in tank or HOB option (BRS has good series with HOB/In-tank "5 Min Guide" I think). You've already got the tank so AIO option is limited to inserts but they look very nice still need equipment that fits. Then there's deep sand beds to handle your nutrients - some don't need skimmers and they normally require low flow, somewhat limited livestock, 4-5 inches of sand in the bottom and not too much live rock. There's all kinds of design/operating rules on various options for DSBs. This is one of few that report long term - years - low maintenance (not no maintenance) success - however also high dissatisfaction numbers because it has to be setup correctly and run within the design (you can't just add on more gear). Lastly, canister filter and probably heavy on water changes at least early on - cons are canister maintenance which isn't too bad. I think those are the major no sump options. I left out continual water changes - not practical unless you live on the ocean.

Full disclosure - my next will be sumpless but haven't decided on which method - leaning towards DSB but I've talked myself out of that half a dozen times already. Also, if you go less demanding corals right off the bat (softies) it'll be much easier to be successful as they grow larger faster and add stability (IMO) - then shift over to LPS/SPS if you wish.

Good Luck!

I totally agree with this post. I originally set my current tank up as an AIO. (It has a HOB overflow box now so I can have a basement sump where I do not have to lift or carry water for water changes) however it was very successful with using an Aquaclear filter. Canister filters when regularly maintained and using lily pipes is another way. The low profile of the equipment using lily pipes is the cleanest look possible.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Personally, I would put on a good hob skimmer, and and ATO, and thats it. I would have a spare hob filter lying around in case of need to run carbon or phosguard, but otherwise, a good skimmer and monthly water changes are enough to have a great tank.

 

[vadryn]

Thanks for the input! The reality is that I'm currently doing a lot of different things and want to cut back without losing stability. My system:

90g sumpless, in an alcove. Very limited room on sides and back, even for powerhead magnets.
DSB + Lots of LR
In-Tank Refugium w/Chaeto, sand, some rubble
In-Tank Tunze 9004 skimmer
BRS Carbon Reactor (piped into cabinet above tank)
BRS GFO Reactor (piped into cabinet above tank)
Bashsea Pellet Reactor (to be installed in cabinet above tank)
Heater in Tank
In-Tank DIY MJ Mechanical filter w/bio-pellet attached
Maxpect Gyre 4k
MJ Powerhead

So my nutrient export (nitrate) is presumably getting hit from DSB/LR, Mech filter, Skimmer and Bio Pellet, at various stages.

My thoughts were to add a single in-tank pump piped to a manifold above for running the 3 reactors. Remove some of the LR to make more room for coral. Remove the refugium? Hate to lose the chaeto and the 'pods it feeds the tank, but it takes a ton of space and looks... bad. Try to have only the MaxSpect Gyre and the return from the reactors for flow. WC are a pain, so my schedule is 30% monthly.

 

[Mark]

Tunze makes a complete line of internal skimmers, mechanical & biological filters, automatic top offs and circulation pumps. This is an excellent product for your application and I have run one of their systems for many years without having problems. I am building a new tank and I will be using their products in a sump this time.

This. I have a 60 gallon breeder(same footprint as a 75), and I run it with an internal Tunze Comline DC skimmer and a Comline filter(for running carbon and other media). The Comline series takes up as much space as a corner overflow. They can house the Tunze ATO. They surface skim. If you go this route, I recommend the DC powered skimmers. They are easier to dial in.

The other option is an AIO. I'd still opt for a Tunze comline skimmer then, and house it in the AIO compartment.

 

[old_lady_4am]

Say you are starting a new tank that's at least 75g. Not drilled. No room for a sump. What's your strategy to setup filtration for a stand-alone system you want running for 10+ years? As a display tank, what's the "minimum" so you don't have a ton of hardware cluttering your view, but still have a stable, vibrant ecosystem? In-tank skimmer? In-tank refugium? Bio-Pellet Reactor? Carbon? GFO? Mechanical filtration? What if there's no room for HOB?

What kind of system do you setup?

Don’t do it! I currently have a sumpless 75g with an in the tank Tunze skimmer, 2 MP40s, 1 wavemaker and 2 Kessil lights. Started it with live rock from my lfs, it’s not overstocked, weekly, sometimes twice weekly water changes…. you just can’t really grow anything for many reasons. I’m in the process right now of setting up my new Waterbox bc sumpless is a deadend! You would be better off with a 30 gallon proper setup with a sump than a sumpless 75g. Trust me. Don’t go sumpless! Did I mention…. Ditch the sumpless idea LOL.

 

[vadryn]

Don’t do it! I currently have a sumpless 75g with an in the tank Tunze skimmer, 2 MP40s, 1 wavemaker and 2 Kessil lights. Started it with live rock from my lfs, it’s not overstocked, weekly, sometimes twice weekly water changes…. you just can’t really grow anything for many reasons. I’m in the process right now of setting up my new Waterbox bc sumpless is a deadend! You would be better off with a 30 gallon proper setup with a sump than a sumpless 75g. Trust me. Don’t go sumpless! Did I mention…. Ditch the sumpless idea LOL.

I appreciate your sentiment. I MUCH prefer the sump setup. I've had this tank running SW for over 10 years now and it limped along for a long time until I recently felt I had the time and money to resurrect it. The bio pellet reactor and a dedicated Tunze refugium light brought my nutrients back to acceptable. Trying to decide on the best streamlined nutrient control and think Bio Pellet with the skimmer might be the holy grail.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Don’t do it! I currently have a sumpless 75g with an in the tank Tunze skimmer, 2 MP40s, 1 wavemaker and 2 Kessil lights. Started it with live rock from my lfs, it’s not overstocked, weekly, sometimes twice weekly water changes…. you just can’t really grow anything for many reasons. I’m in the process right now of setting up my new Waterbox bc sumpless is a deadend! You would be better off with a 30 gallon proper setup with a sump than a sumpless 75g. Trust me. Don’t go sumpless! Did I mention…. Ditch the sumpless idea LOL.

I would not agree with that, I have 2 sumpless tanks which grow corals very well. I struggle with acros, but anything else, including softies, lps, sps, and clams, all grow just fine in my sumpless tanks.

 

[Jekyl]

Say you are starting a new tank that's at least 75g. Not drilled. No room for a sump. What's your strategy to setup filtration for a stand-alone system you want running for 10+ years? As a display tank, what's the "minimum" so you don't have a ton of hardware cluttering your view, but still have a stable, vibrant ecosystem? In-tank skimmer? In-tank refugium? Bio-Pellet Reactor? Carbon? GFO? Mechanical filtration? What if there's no room for HOB?

What kind of system do you setup?

My 5 year old 90g runs an RUGF filtration system along with a HoB filter and skimmer.

 

[vlangel]

Thanks for the input! The reality is that I'm currently doing a lot of different things and want to cut back without losing stability. My system:

90g sumpless, in an alcove. Very limited room on sides and back, even for powerhead magnets.
DSB + Lots of LR
In-Tank Refugium w/Chaeto, sand, some rubble
In-Tank Tunze 9004 skimmer
BRS Carbon Reactor (piped into cabinet above tank)
BRS GFO Reactor (piped into cabinet above tank)
Bashsea Pellet Reactor (to be installed in cabinet above tank)
Heater in Tank
In-Tank DIY MJ Mechanical filter w/bio-pellet attached
Maxpect Gyre 4k
MJ Powerhead

So my nutrient export (nitrate) is presumably getting hit from DSB/LR, Mech filter, Skimmer and Bio Pellet, at various stages.

My thoughts were to add a single in-tank pump piped to a manifold above for running the 3 reactors. Remove some of the LR to make more room for coral. Remove the refugium? Hate to lose the chaeto and the 'pods it feeds the tank, but it takes a ton of space and looks... bad. Try to have only the MaxSpect Gyre and the return from the reactors for flow. WC are a pain, so my schedule is 30% monthly.

You can add ornamental macroalgae to the display along with coral and that can act as a haven to encourage pods along with nutrient uptake. My tank is predominantly macroalgae and softies/LPS and it's the best tank I have done. It has a very DSB (on one side) and a fair amount of live rock but it is also the best aquascape I have done. Here is a pic.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Three decades or more ago, Sump was not really an option and we got coral and fish to thrive well. My tanks and store tanks were glass aquarium with Undergravel filter with a powerhead in each tube and substrate was dolomite by carib sea with tetra water clarifier and my 125g had dual Penguin Bio wheel 350 and store tanks had penguin bio wheel 250s
Water changes were necessary on a regular basis .
Then came the sump with a hang on Overflow and I was the proud owner of the revolutionary Marineland wet/dry trickle system