How To Deal With Am Aggressive Orchid Dotty?

[ReefWithCare]

Hi all,

So I downgraded my tank from a 125G to a 40B and took several fish to the smaller tank. One of them was my orchid dotty - who admittedly was the biggest jerk in my 125G with the melanarus wrasse at the time keeping him in check.

The big wrasse was sold and I moved 2 azure damsels, the orchid, and a ruby longfin fairy wrasse to the 40B

The orchid dotty and fairy wrasse never got along. The dotty likes to bully him but when I QTed them together the fairy held his own and in the 125G he ignored the dotty.

Now my fairy goes in a corner as the orchid thinks the entire tank is his. He even pushes the damsels around.

I’m thinking of sumping the dotty for a couple of months, but I dunno how I’m going to catch him. He’s crazy fast and he’s slow to eat so I don’t think a fish trap will work.

Am I gonna need to tear apart my scape to get him? I feel like once my new pair of clowns are done in QT that they will check him and all may go back to normal. The fairy wrasse still eats and is active with the damsels.

I've also thought about turning him into the fish store and replacing him with a Royal Gramma after I QT one. IME Grammas tend to be less aggressive and more chill. I originally wanted a Gramma, but at the time there wasn't one available so I got an orchid instead after reading about how they are supposed to be less aggressive than other dottybacks.

 

[shred5]

I kept one once and it will be the last time. You will have to remove it.
It is that fishes nature and the worst part is they can get through any hole so nothing can hide from them.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Do you have a picture of him? I just want to make sure he's for sure an orchid (fridmani) and not a purple dottyback (porphyreus). Orchids are definitely much more peaceful than most other dottybacks, but like any fish... they are all individuals. I've had a "timid" rhomboid wrasse, terrorize other fish and even kill another wrasse.

Best trap I've found, is an acrylic acclimation box with a piece of string tied to the door. I have one of the commercial "traps" and I think it's too small... none of my fish would go in it. The most important piece of any trap though, is the bait. You'll want something extra yummy in there to get his attention.... I like little neck clams because they don't make a mess and are tasty enough to get attention.

 

[ReefWithCare]

Do you have a picture of him? I just want to make sure he's for sure an orchid (fridmani) and not a purple dottyback (porphyreus). Orchids are definitely much more peaceful than most other dottybacks, but like any fish... they are all individuals. I've had a "timid" rhomboid wrasse, terrorize other fish and even kill another wrasse.

Best trap I've found, is an acrylic acclimation box with a piece of string tied to the door. I have one of the commercial "traps" and I think it's too small... none of my fish would go in it. The most important piece of any trap though, is the bait. You'll want something extra yummy in there to get his attention.... I like little neck clams because they don't make a mess and are tasty enough to get attention.

This is the only pic I have on my phone from when he was first added to my 125. He’s right below the big wrasse in that pic. You have to zoom in to see him. He has the black streaks on his eyes like all orchids have. He was ordered off DD as an orchid. I can get a better pic when I’m home.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Definitely an orchid, I can see enough from this photo... just making sure since they are so similar looking in name and appearance- but not temperament.

Although, sounds like your guy is taking after his wild and crazy cousins instead of acting like a proper orchid... ugh, good luck with the fishing! One of my first "oops" purchases after getting started in the hobby was a diadema dottyback, aka tiny terror. That fish was nasty to every fish in the tank, even those twice it's own size. I used an inverted bottle trap to get that one out, but have since found the acclimation box to be much more consistently effective.

 

[ReefWithCare]

Definitely an orchid, I can see enough from this photo... just making sure since they are so similar looking in name and appearance- but not temperament.

Although, sounds like your guy is taking after his wild and crazy cousins instead of acting like a proper orchid... ugh, good luck with the fishing! One of my first "oops" purchases after getting started in the hobby was a diadema dottyback, aka tiny terror. That fish was nasty to every fish in the tank, even those twice it's own size. I used an inverted bottle trap to get that one out, but have since found the acclimation box to be much more consistently effective.

Ya, I mentioned it to my wife last night that the orchid was becoming a problem. She said it was because I put the wrasse through too much with all the QT'ing that he never got his confidence back (recall my earlier post with the nervous wrasse I kept in QT because I thought he had something). The wrasse did great in the 40B for about a week then got shut down by the orchid and is timid now. His colors changed too. He was a nice orange and now is a red --- though he was red in my 125G and would be orange in QT. The good thing is I have all my storage bins from my 125G so I can take apart the tank if I have too. It would be easier to tear it apart now before the clowns go in and probably sump the dotty first then remove him when I can replace its bioload (since this tank runs a little too clean right now).

One concern of sumping him is my fuge. That's where all my pods are so they would be fresh pickings for the orchid.

Weird thing is I though my damsels would be the issue - but one of the damsels actually sleeps with the wrasse every night

 

[ngoodermuth]

I highly doubt that little orchid is contributing all that much, waste-wise... I'd keep the pods and just re-home the dotty lol. Bonus to using an acclimation box to catch him, you could easily keep him in there for a few days while you figure out where to go with him!

 

[ReefWithCare]

I highly doubt that little orchid is contributing all that much, waste-wise... I'd keep the pods and just re-home the dotty lol. Bonus to using an acclimation box to catch him, you could easily keep him in there for a few days while you figure out where to go with him!

Oh I actually have a accumulation box. I did put it in there in the 125G when I put the Orchid and the fairy wrasse in. It's this one - https://www.amazon.com/Reefing-Art-Acrylic-Acclimation-Isolation/dp/B0791TWC61?th=1

I let the fairy in the tank directly and kept the orchid in the box for about 4 days. He looked stressed out and wasn't eating so we let him out --- and he instantly acted like a butt, attacked everyone, then the melaranus smacked him on the head and that was the end of that lol.

 

[shred5]

Forget what I said in earlier post, age caught up with me there for a moment. Neon is what I had, orchids are generally more peaceful than a neon but I have know others that have had issues with orchids too.

Neon are just a flat out mean fish.

 

[mikenestle]

You may want to introduce the Clowns first. They will claim a little space and maybe the Dotty will settle down and just claim a small space of his own. The Clowns will hold their own I would think.

 

[4FordFamily]

Fish trap is your best bet. Adding more wrasse will reduce aggression but I believe you said you downsized, so that isn't a good idea.

An aggressive dotty will probably have to be re-homed, they don't often get "less aggressive", they typically worsen. My orchid dotty have been pretty "mild" for a dottyback, some of them seemed completely harmless. They have many wrasse tank-mates in those instances, however.

 

[ReefWithCare]

Fish trap is your best bet. Adding more wrasse will reduce aggression but I believe you said you downsized, so that isn't a good idea.

An aggressive dotty will probably have to be re-homed, they don't often get "less aggressive", they typically worsen. My orchid dotty have been pretty "mild" for a dottyback, some of them seemed completely harmless. They have many wrasse tank-mates in those instances, however.

They the orchid is most aggressive to the fairy wrasse. He will push around the damsels but he will put the wrasse in a corner. He was always mean to the fairy wrasse there was just a lot more space in the 125G than the 40B. They were QT’ed in a 29 at the same time and the orchid was mean to the fairy but near the end of the QT time the wrasse was outcompeting it and generally ignored the dotty.

Damsels don’t really care for the wrasse other than one of them who prefers to sleep near it.

That’s why I’ve been thinking more and more about replacing the orchid dotty with a royal gramma. Grammas can be a little mean, but I’ve never seen one act like this orchid.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I agree, I had a gramma in a pretty small tank (30g) I would call him “defensive” he didn’t like other fish hanging around his hidey-hole, but he wouldn’t go out of his way to chase them around. He would open his mouth and flare up, but once they swam away, he was fine.

In my experience, if a fish is going out of their way to continually chase other fish around... they need different tank-mates or a bigger tank.

 

[ReefWithCare]

I agree, I had a gramma in a pretty small tank (30g) I would call him “defensive” he didn’t like other fish hanging around his hidey-hole, but he wouldn’t go out of his way to chase them around. He would open his mouth and flare up, but once they swam away, he was fine.

In my experience, if a fish is going out of their way to continually chase other fish around... they need different tank-mates or a bigger tank.

Yeah that's mostly been my experience with grammas. They are usually more bark than bite.

So I think what I'll do is use the accumulate box and stick that in the sump. My DT has a tight mesh lid which won't work very well with the box unless I pull the lid off - which I don't want to do with a spazzy wrasse. The sump is open top so it will be ez pz to keep him in there until someone picks him up.

I got 3 offers for him in less than 2 hours. Apparently when you QT EVERYTHING in your tank, people are more encouraged to purchase your fish --- despite my full disclosure that this Orchid is a butt lol.

 

[ReefWithCare]

So I pulled out all my rocks and determined by process of elimination that the orchid is in this rock. He’s hiding in there and I can’t get him out. I’m concerned now that everytime I go to get into this bin that he is going to dive right into the rock. Any idea how to get it out?

 

[ReefWithCare]

Any experience with pulling a fish out of a rock #reefsquad

 

[Jesterrace]

Hi all,

So I downgraded my tank from a 125G to a 40B and took several fish to the smaller tank. One of them was my orchid dotty - who admittedly was the biggest jerk in my 125G with the melanarus wrasse at the time keeping him in check.

The big wrasse was sold and I moved 2 azure damsels, the orchid, and a ruby longfin fairy wrasse to the 40B

The orchid dotty and fairy wrasse never got along. The dotty likes to bully him but when I QTed them together the fairy held his own and in the 125G he ignored the dotty.

Now my fairy goes in a corner as the orchid thinks the entire tank is his. He even pushes the damsels around.

I’m thinking of sumping the dotty for a couple of months, but I dunno how I’m going to catch him. He’s crazy fast and he’s slow to eat so I don’t think a fish trap will work.

Am I gonna need to tear apart my scape to get him? I feel like once my new pair of clowns are done in QT that they will check him and all may go back to normal. The fairy wrasse still eats and is active with the damsels.

I've also thought about turning him into the fish store and replacing him with a Royal Gramma after I QT one. IME Grammas tend to be less aggressive and more chill. I originally wanted a Gramma, but at the time there wasn't one available so I got an orchid instead after reading about how they are supposed to be less aggressive than other dottybacks.

Get rid of it. It was a butthole in your 125 and was kept in check by the Melanurus (Love mine BTW as it's similar in it's I won't start fights, but I WILL FINISH them mentality). It's now got free reign of a smaller tank. Your idea of replacing it with a basslet is a great one. Whenever anyone looks at Dottybacks I always steer them towards the basslets as you get a similar look and shape but with a much better tank mate.

As far as trapping them, the best way to do it is to put a trap in the tank with the door left open/off and don't feed anywhere but the trap. It might take a few days but hunger will motivate the fish to feed in there. After they get comfortable feeding in there add the door and set the trap and wait for the fish to go in to feed. I've used this method for a couple of fish and it works very well. Much better than standing there for hours hoping the fish goes in so you can spring the trap. I used this for a tiny ocellaris clown and a Yellow Tang that were both too aggressive:


You can order it from Amazon.

 

[mattzang]

i think i'd give it back to the lfs, mine is kind of a ******, but not too bad. definitely not so bad that i can't add new fish. sucks to give up a fish, but that seems abnormally aggressive for an orchid.

 

[ReefWithCare]

Success xD!

 

[Jesterrace]

Glad you caught it. I think your tank will be much happier with it gone. I had a Yellow Tang in my 90 gallon and I could almost swear my Coral Beauty and Melanurus did a happy dance after it was gone.