How to detect a power issue (device tripping GFCI)?

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Hi All,
My aquarium components all plug into a single GFCI outlet. It's tripped a few times over the past couple of months (so very rare, but still a big issue). Any idea how I can test the devices to see what might be causing it to trip? I have an Apex. Could it tell me anything? Or would a Kill-A-Watt or something help (I don't have one, but might be able to borrow one). Thanks,
--Kyle
 
There is a device that you can plug into GFCI and then plug appliance into it to detect ground issues.
 
GFCI trips on a short (closed loop) on the circuit. I would check with a multimeter for stray voltage in any water or metal surface. Black wire goes to ground and the red you contact what you are testing. If you blow the fuse you found it!
 
There is a device that you can plug into GFCI and then plug appliance into it to detect ground issues.

Any idea what it's called? Might be worth a try.

GFCI trips on a short (closed loop) on the circuit. I would check with a multimeter for stray voltage in any water or metal surface. Black wire goes to ground and the red you contact what you are testing. If you blow the fuse you found it!

Okay, but that wouldn't isolate to a specific device right (except for if I did that for each device individually)? Thanks,
--Kyle
 
Nice to see a fellow KC reefer :) The fact that you go weeks between trips tells me that you probably don't have any defective equipment but in the "perfect storm" you are overloading the circuit. I mean all your devices are drawing current at the same time.
 
Nice to see a fellow KC reefer :) The fact that you go weeks between trips tells me that you probably don't have any defective equipment but in the "perfect storm" you are overloading the circuit. I mean all your devices are drawing current at the same time.

This is my thought as well. If it's happening really intermittently it's usually a point where for whatever reason everything is turned on at once and it's too much for the circuit.
 
Do you have the Apex ATO and a classic Apex head unit?

I had the ATO causing issues before and I disconnected the unit. Found out the pump power supply was causing issues. I still need to contact Apex about it.
 
A single GFCI receptacle is never a good idea. At least keep your return pump on its own GFCI receptacle, separate from anything else. Remember new GFCI receptacles are self testing, when they go bad they shut themselves off.
 
Wow, I woke up to a flurry of messages! :)

Nice to see a fellow KC reefer :) The fact that you go weeks between trips tells me that you probably don't have any defective equipment but in the "perfect storm" you are overloading the circuit. I mean all your devices are drawing current at the same time.
Welcome to R2R btw :)

Thanks Krash! Although I've been here for about 10 years now. But I mostly used ReefSanctuary back in the day (because they had a specific Red Sea Max Owner's forum, which is what I had / still have). I lost interest in the hobby for many years after a crash and this February I got back into it and upgraded to a 120g. Anyway, what part of KC are you in? I'm in Blue Springs.

This is my thought as well. If it's happening really intermittently it's usually a point where for whatever reason everything is turned on at once and it's too much for the circuit.

Thanks, I had been wondering that as well. But I figured it would blow the breaker vs trip the GFCI - something I don't know a lot about though. By far the biggest power draw is my 500 watt heater. So if I put it on a separate GFCI outlet, maybe that alone would fix the issue?

Or a gfci going bad. How old is it?

Newish - I installed it in February or March of this year. Very bad planning on me though - I installed it behind the tank and it may be impossible to replace now. :(

Many variables. Old gfi? (notice I didn't say gfci lol) Other outlets on the circuit? You can get cheap power loss alarms at the hardware store to be safe until you get it sorted out.

The Apex Heartbeat alerts me when the power goes out (although it takes a half hour to do so).

Do you have the Apex ATO and a classic Apex head unit?

Nope, 2016 Apex and using Genesis Reef Systems STORM and RENEW ATO and auto water change system. That said, I did have a cheap supplemental powerhead that I know was tripping the GFCI occasionally (it would immediately trip sometimes right when I plugged it in). I quit using that though.

A single GFCI receptacle is never a good idea. At least keep your return pump on its own GFCI receptacle, separate from anything else. Remember new GFCI receptacles are self testing, when they go bad they shut themselves off.

Well, but I run everything off of my Apex EB832. That said, I have my MP40 on a battery backup to make sure there's flow in the tank if the power goes out. Also, I have an EB8 that I might hook up to a different GFCI outlet. I'll see if I can hook it up to a separate breaker as well, so I don't have everything on the same breaker. Maybe like this:
Breaker/GFCI 1: EB832: Most Equipment, MP40 with Battery Backup
Breaker/GFCI 2: EB8: Return pump, Heater. Then the biggest power draw [heater] is on its own, with the return pump, and if one breaker goes down, I'll still have flow.
Thoughts?

I like the power monitoring of the EB832 (showing how much power draw each device takes). IIRC the EB8 doesn't report that? I'll have to check... Thanks,
--Kyle
 
I had this issue a few years ago in my previous home. Every now and then it would trip. Turned out to be a perfect storm of stuff aligning. First I had to much plugged into that circuit. I had halide and t5 lighting at the time that pulled more power than my LEDS now that was part of it. Anyway the main issue was my heater. It happened during winter. When everything was on and the halides where running and my heater happened to need to turn on... click. everything off. I found out that when I had everything on and the heater turned on it was to much power surging through the circuit. If I plugged stuff up to a different one it fixed it, changing to LEDs fixed it later. My new home we built so I had the room the tank is in set on its own circuit with its own breaker.
 
Long post..but safety first.

GFCIs work by sensing the outgoing power hot line and comparing it to return neutral. If there's an imbalance of 5 milliamps it will trip (100 mA can kill a person under the right conditions so GFCI is to protect you from that - house circuit fuses trip at 10, 15 or 20 amps long after you could be dead). So it's looking for some degradation in equipment causing unintended electrical path to ground and tripping (ground fault). This prevents you from becoming the path to ground...you never want to be the path to ground. :(

It is not like a house breaker/fuse. That will trip on total current (and that's designed to protect house, not you). If your house breaker/fuse isn't tripping now and it's in good condition - then it's not total current but that imbalance. You could overload the circuit and have the house breaker trip and NOT trip the GFCI (they do different things).

So causes...equipment is faulty, GFCI trip circuit is faulty or installed incorrectly, there's moisture in the GFCI box, house wiring insulation is breaking down, overload (but only because of sensitivity, not design) or perhaps cumulative effects of small grounding issues (one device aging might have small current leakage but not enough to trip, multiple devices could add up). I think that's it.

I have some knowledge of electrical equipment and test gear so I would have no issue checking for current leakage. You state you don't so I won't cover here. You hint that that you can't get at the GFCI box since it's behind your tank (that's another problem you need to address - not having easy access to the electrical outlet is not optimally safe). So you can't check if there's condensation building up in the box and you can't replace or test the GFCI easily.

So what I recommend is find someone with electrical knowledge to assist you in your home...like an electrician. They can use test equipment and find source assuming it's failing and not something intermittent.

But...I'd also say get an aquarium ground probe (increase safety as the ground probe is designed to be best path for current take instead of you). Then check the obvious...wet/damp/salt around the outlet, near your switches/plugs/controllers. If your electrics are in your cabinet consider taking them out or putting in fan to reduce humidity. Replace any older or obviously cracked/damaged equipment in water (anything past warranty). Move the power source to a different outlet that you have access to (install GFCI there). If it still trips intermittently, you're likely going to need that electrician regardless.

The GFCI is doing it's job but make sure you test it frequently even and especially after it stops tripping occasionally (assuming you can reach enough to test it - if you can't even test it, then you need to move power elsewhere now).

Side note: So there's nothing wrong electrically or functionally with everything into one GFCI outlet, it's just a higher risk if the GFCI trips that you lose all power to everything. So it's more of a failure in redundancy.
 
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If your house breaker/fuse isn't tripping now and it's in good condition - then it's not total current but that imbalance.

Hey Quietman, thanks for your helpful post. So you don't think that splitting up the devices (less load on the one outlet) will eliminate the GFCI trips?

You hint that that you can't get at the GFCI box since it's behind your tank (that's another problem you need to address - not having easy access to the electrical outlet is not optimally safe). So you can't check if there's condensation building up in the box and you can't replace or test the GFCI easily.

Yes, that was a bad oversight on my part. I don't really have any condensation getting near there though, so that's a plus. If I had to in the future, I could run extension cords to this spot. Also, I can reach it well enough to test / reset it. And if I absolutely had to, I might be able to replace it through the cabinet / over the sump / and/or behind the wall which I have full access to if I move my mixing barrels. It just wouldn't be easy!

But...I'd also say get an aquarium ground probe

Check, I do have one installed. As to your other notes, I removed the two cheap powerheads (one of which I know was an issue), and the rest of my components are fairly new / good quality. I use a separate cabinet beside the tank instead of under it (absolutely no condensation). So I think I'm okay on most of this. I just don't know what might be tripping the GFCI... Thanks,
--Kyle
 
Sounds good. Yes, you may eliminate the trips by splitting up the load, but usually those are more high amperage devices (refrigerators that trip) that the sensor is a little sensitive to. Since it's so intermittent - and your load is pretty consistent (even if consistently cycling) just not thinking it's a load thing. Plus I worry that you do actually have something wrong. Always believe the symptoms until you prove differently. I'm less worried about you preventing the trips then I am you finding the fault and getting shocked.

But if you can't find anything it might be worth doing just to prevent those trips. Just make sure you're testing the GFCI. With two GFCI and two devices with ground faults on separate lines that's only 10 mA which isn't lethal (assuming you're healthy). Plus the ground probe really eliminates a lot of risk.
 
Plus I worry that you do actually have something wrong. Always believe the symptoms until you prove differently. I'm less worried about you preventing the trips then I am you finding the fault and getting shocked.

But if you can't find anything it might be worth doing just to prevent those trips. Just make sure you're testing the GFCI. With two GFCI and two devices with ground faults on separate lines that's only 10 mA which isn't lethal (assuming you're healthy). Plus the ground probe really eliminates a lot of risk.

Thanks. Now I need to get another GFCI to setup on a separate breaker on the other side of the wall, along with a good extension cord that I'll run through the wall. And another thing I wonder about (might have to post in the Controller forum) is my Apex. For one, will the EB8 show power draw of each outlet (NBD; just a bummer if it doesn't), and more importantly, if the brain + EB832 loses power, will the EB8 / connected devices continue to function properly if no longer connected to the brain (clearly the heater I wouldn't want to remain on, but I'd want the return pump to!)?
--Kyle
 

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