How to dose NOPOX with GHA outbreak?

[gideon2086]

Hey there,

I’m currently showing 0.25 no3 and 0 po4. The phosphates are likely being sucked up by the GHA in the tank. The instructions are clear but they base it off of nutrient levels... something I can’t accurately ascertain.

91g total volume tank. How should I dose this stuff?

 

[Quietman]

Not sure why you want to dose NOPOx with those N-P levels. NOPOx is carbon source to ultimately reduce NO3 and po4. Did you mean you want to dose nitrate and phosphate?

 

[gideon2086]

Not sure why you want to dose NOPOx with those N-P levels. NOPOx is carbon source to ultimately reduce NO3 and po4. Did you mean you want to dose nitrate and phosphate?

Sorry, no. I want to dose it to push back a GHA bloom.

 

[Quietman]

Ah...afraid at those levels the effectiveness of NOPOx is going to be minimal. And driving down N+P to 0 creates other issues. You can try a couple ml if you wish and maybe out compete but I didn't have any luck. I'd recommend manual removal and keep nutrients where they are or additives targeting GHA...such as vibrant

 

[User1]

Can you manually try and remove some of the GHA? May have a easier time. Also check your phosphate test kit although I'm sure you have. I'd double check those numbers but it could be as you say the GHA is pulling / consuming nutrients. No doubt.

NoPox is a great product. Instructions are what you need to follow in this case. In fact I would recommend cutting the dose in half and start slow should you choose to use the product. Make sure you have a good working skimmer and throw in a bag of carbon. There are some threads out there with over dosing and it can nuke a take pretty quickly. However, reducing the initial dose is wise so you can track what it actually reduces while also looking at the tank visually to see how it reacts.

Last thing it would not hurt to do a few searches here on the forum. Some interesting threads on NoPox. I've used it, started with 1/3 recommended initial dose, and slowly increased it to recommended level over a month. So just go slow. Nothing is ever good in this hobby if you expect it to work over night.

 

[gideon2086]

Right - my thoughts are that my po4 reading is not accurate because the GHA Is sucking it up.

 

[Dan_P]

Hey there,

I’m currently showing 0.25 no3 and 0 po4. The phosphates are likely being sucked up by the GHA in the tank. The instructions are clear but they base it off of nutrient levels... something I can’t accurately ascertain.

91g total volume tank. How should I dose this stuff?

Is your idea to dose carbon to stimulate bacteria growth which might out compete GHA for nitrogen and phosphorous?

Is there coral in your aquarium? If so, they might be phosphate starved. Bacteria will not grow well being phosphate starved either.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hey there,

I’m currently showing 0.25 no3 and 0 po4. The phosphates are likely being sucked up by the GHA in the tank. The instructions are clear but they base it off of nutrient levels... something I can’t accurately ascertain.

91g total volume tank. How should I dose this stuff?

I would not use carbon dosing to try to control an algae problem, but if you want to try it for that or other reasons, just start very slow.

How are you measuring phosphate? You may want to dose it if it really is very low.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Right - my thoughts are that my po4 reading is not accurate because the GHA Is sucking it up.

Just to be clear, that is not an inaccuracy, but the value itself may still be inaccurate.

A static nutrient level measurement says nothing about how much of that nutrient is added and removed each day, but can still be perfectly accurate.

 

[gideon2086]

I would not use carbon dosing to try to control an algae problem, but if you want to try it for that or other reasons, just start very slow.

How are you measuring phosphate? You may want to dose it if it really is very low.

Hey Randy, I’m measuring phosphate with the API tester. It has consistently read at 0.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hey Randy, I’m measuring phosphate with the API tester. It has consistently read at 0.

I wouldn't put high stock in that value. 0.03 ppm phosphate is fine, and that kit will likely show none.

 

[gideon2086]

I wouldn't put high stock in that value. 0.03 ppm phosphate is fine, and that kit will likely show none.

I have a Hannah in the pipeline. I was led to believe that the levels of phosphate shown on the test will likely be low due to the outbreak of the GHA. Manual removal and CUC has been failing. Do you have a recommended method of getting this stuff to die off? I currently have strands > 1” all over. If I scrub and suction they are back to that length in days. I have trochus and astrea snails, hermits, emeralds, tangs. I had an urchin but it lasted only a few days for some reason. May give another one a shot...

 

[NS Mike D]

you may want to decide of a targets for your PO4 and NO3 along with the arrival of more reliable test kits. Red Sea publishes target numbers based on the type of tank you have.

Reef Care Recipes - Red Sea

Red Sea's recipes for easy & successful Reef-Keeping, Our Reef Care Recipes offer easy-to-understand and simple-to-implement instructions for reef maintenance, tailored to each type of aquarium.

www.redseafish.com

Chasing zero NO3/PO4 can actually stress your corals and favor nuisance alage/bacteria and they can sometimes be more resourceful than the corals. Also, if you do indeed have PO4 (my API tested at zero for a long time and baffled me, until I switched test kits and low and behold my PO4 was well over my target upper limit of 0.08). If you have low to no NO3 with PO4 present, that is an recipe for things like cyano and GHA. etc,.


You can remove the rocks and use diluted h202 when you scrub. Just make sure you rinse everything. The corals should be fine so long as you keep the H2O2 limited to the affedcted areas. If you scrub in the DT, you are asking for trouble as it will then attach everywhere.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I was led to believe that the levels of phosphate shown on the test will likely be low due to the outbreak of the GHA.

That certainly can be true. Problem algae will lower it just like growing macroaglae. I just want folks to understand it is not an "inaccuracy".

 

[NS Mike D]

That certainly can be true. Problem algae will lower it just like growing macroaglae. I just want folks to understand it is not an "inaccuracy".

that is true, but aren't the API PO4 test kits notorious for not being sufficiently sensitive for reef tanks, reading zero when PO4 is at a level that the reef hobbyist would need to know.

0.25 NO3 is very low. if there is indeed PO4 say at 1ppm, wouldn't conventional wisdom dictate to bring NO3 up and then coral uptake would then bring PO4 in line, as opposed to trying to lower NO3?

 

[gideon2086]

that is true, but aren't the API PO4 test kits notorious for not being sufficiently sensitive for reef tanks, reading zero when PO4 is at a level that the reef hobbyist would need to know.

Yes. He’s already said exactly that.

 

[NS Mike D]

Yes. He’s already said exactly that.

I'm just not following his logic that it's not an inaccuracy but the values may be inaccurate

 

[gideon2086]

but then without more accurate testing, how can one conclude it's not an inaccuracy?


I get that PO4 can be consumed up before testing, but in this case, it seems that the API are not providing accurate results.

I mean to that point while the GHA remains constant how will any test provide an idea of what the po4 output actually is? I think this is why I was instructed to dose carbon. Starve the algae basically. Once it’s gone I should have an idea of where my po4 really is.

 

[NS Mike D]

I mean to that point while the GHA remains constant how will any test provide an idea of what the po4 output actually is? I think this is why I was instructed to dose carbon. Starve the algae basically. Once it’s gone I should have an idea of where my po4 really is.

not sure what you mean by PO4 output.


with better test kits, you should see some consistency and trends in your parameters.



If your NO3 is truly 0.25. (if using API, ditch that too). that is in the ultra low nutrient tank level, usually targeted by expert hobbyists in the SPS tanks. At very low to no NO3 & PO4 you (and your corals) have very little wiggle room for error and, IMO, possibly creating an environment that is more friendly for nuisance algae than for your corals. And also, for the algae to uptake the nutrients before testing.


Do read the link from Red Sea posted on target parameters. It's important that sufficient levels of NO3 and PO4 be present for healthy uptake by the corals. This is why you see people dosing NO3 & PO4 in their tanks. There is a good chance that you PO4 is higher than zero. At 0.25ppm NO3, the red sea target PO4 is 0.01 - 0.02ppm. For a mixed reef tank they recommend 1-2 ppm NO3 and 0.08 - 0.12ppm PO4. These are not written in stone, but they are based on experience and science.

On a similar note, it does make sense to run NO3 & PO4 low in a new tank versus a mature tank that will have lost of corals competing with the algae.

As a disclosure As you can tell, I am not a fan of starving algae, but rather of keeping parameters steady that will keep my corals happy, and deal with nuisance algae by removal. And I recently lost a dino battle resulting in a a full take breakdown and do over. SO take my words as not an expert, just experience and a lot of learning from others.


Oh yeah, give this some thought. Red Sea doesn't recommend chasing low NO3 & PO4 with NOPOX. Rather the recommend using it to bring your numbers to one of their published recommended parameters. This is why post saying to use NOPOX to rid of algae without having certainty of current levels as well as target levels is, IMO, not very good advice.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

that is true, but aren't the API PO4 test kits notorious for not being sufficiently sensitive for reef tanks, reading zero when PO4 is at a level that the reef hobbyist would need to know.

Yes, that exactly what I said: "I wouldn't put high stock in that value. "