How to get nitrates up without dosing.

[Tbyram]

So I’ve have Nitrates that measure 0 (Red Sea, API). My nitrite reads 10-13 ppb via Hanna checker. My phosphate has been .03 to .20 (higher as GFO needs changing) (via Hanna phosphorus)

I’m not getting good color from my Acro and thought I need more nitrates. I was wondering how to do this without dosing nitrates?

Do I have too much rock so the bacteria is Hein too efficient? Can I feed more but up my GFO flow to maintain the phosphates?

Thoughts?

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

If your goal is only to increase nitrates, dosing is probably the best way to do so. Dosing is very precise, and you can target an exact level and maintain it with dosing. Overfeeding with the express goal of raising nitrates can be problematic because of the phosphates present in fish foods. It's also more difficult to control how much additional nitrates are added.

If your goal is to improve coral coloration and health, which it sounds like it is, I personally think the best way is feeding corals directly. I would feed a particulate or coral food, like Reef Chili or Reef Roids. Both nitrate and phosphate levels in the ocean are measured in the parts per billion. While keeping elevated nitrates and phosphates appears to keep corals alive and colorful in captivity, you can likely achieve similar results by dosing particulate foods that your corals would encounter in the wild.

 

[Crabs McJones]

So I’ve have Nitrates that measure 0 (Red Sea, API). My nitrite reads 10-13 ppb via Hanna checker. My phosphate has been .03 to .20 (higher as GFO needs changing) (via Hanna phosphorus)

I’m not getting good color from my Acro and thought I need more nitrates. I was wondering how to do this without dosing nitrates?

Do I have too much rock so the bacteria is Hein too efficient? Can I feed more but up my GFO flow to maintain the phosphates?

Thoughts?

How old is the tank and how was it cycled? A fully cycled tank shouldn't read any nitrites. Do you know if you're registering any ammonia?

 

[TripleDogDareYah]

I can't get nitrates to go up either and started dosing spectricide... but my sps started to brown out fairly quickly. Either too much of a change... too much potassium... or impurities in the stump remover... it is stump remover after all. So I understand that you don't want to dose. Either do I frankly. If you do go that route don't repeat my mistake and just go buy the more expensive lab grade stuff. Your tank will thank you.

 

[Tbyram]

How old is the tank and how was it cycled? A fully cycled tank shouldn't read any nitrites. Do you know if you're registering any ammonia?

My tank is about 16 months old. I have about 7 fish (a few more about to leave QT). I've always heard that 0 phosphates and 0 nitrates is where to be but lately I've read that Acros and some other SPSs want some nitrates to color up. I have a bunch of other corals and they are growing and color up well. My monti's are great, a birds nest as well. The one ACRO (WWC Snowdrop) has great polyp extension and is growing but is just a plain pinkish color and not what it should be. It is under T5/LED combo so I think light is OK. Also no Ammonia...to your other questions.

 

[declanisadog]

If your goal is only to increase nitrates, dosing is probably the best way to do so. Dosing is very precise, and you can target an exact level and maintain it with dosing. Overfeeding with the express goal of raising nitrates can be problematic because of the phosphates present in fish foods. It's also more difficult to control how much additional nitrates are added.

If your goal is to improve coral coloration and health, which it sounds like it is, I personally think the best way is feeding corals directly. I would feed a particulate or coral food, like Reef Chili or Reef Roids. Both nitrate and phosphate levels in the ocean are measured in the parts per billion. While keeping elevated nitrates and phosphates appears to keep corals alive and colorful in captivity, you can likely achieve similar results by dosing particulate foods that your corals would encounter in the wild.

I would be more worried about having any nitrites more so than having no nitrates. Any chance you are confusing the two?

I can't get nitrates to go up either and started dosing spectricide... but my sps started to brown out fairly quickly. Either too much of a change... too much potassium... or impurities in the stump remover... it is stump remover after all. So I understand that you don't want to dose. Either do I frankly. If you do go that route don't repeat my mistake and just go buy the more expensive lab grade stuff. Your tank will thank you.

I, along with countless others, dose spectricide with no negatives. are you sure it's not something else? If your corals are browning you may be overdosing. What are your nitrates at, and what test are you using?

 

[Crabs McJones]

My tank is about 16 months old. I have about 7 fish (a few more about to leave QT). I've always heard that 0 phosphates and 0 nitrates is where to be but lately I've read that Acros and some other SPSs want some nitrates to color up. I have a bunch of other corals and they are growing and color up well. My monti's are great, a birds nest as well. The one ACRO (WWC Snowdrop) has great polyp extension and is growing but is just a plain pinkish color and not what it should be. It is under T5/LED combo so I think light is OK. Also no Ammonia...to your other questions.

I've been hearing and reading the same recently. It used to be no nitrate and no phosphate, but now it's being said that a little is ok lol

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I would be more worried about having any nitrites more so than having no nitrates. Any chance you are confusing the two?

No. The nitrite reading was given in parts per billion, which is equivalent to 0.010 - 0.013 ppm. I'm skeptical that the Hanna checker can read nitrite accurately this low. Even if it can, these levels are not likely to be a problem in captive marine aquaria.

If the units were reported incorrectly, that's a different story. But as reported, the nitrites the OP reported, from my perspective, did not require addressing.

EDIT: I suppose claiming skepticism of the Checker's accuracy is a bit premature. In truth, I don't know much about the Nitrite Checker. Given the problems that users report with the Calcium Checker and the low range measurement provided by the Nitrite Checker, I supposed it would be more accurate to say that I am hesitant to treat the readings as true until more of the community has used the checker without issue.

 

[TripleDogDareYah]

In the chemical sales industry, the sources companies use for their products sometimes change as the market fluctuates. As such, some batches will naturally have impurities and some will be just fine. For the purpose of stump removal... minor impurities are more than acceptable. The same cannot be said for a reef tank... This is of course my opinion.

 

[declanisadog]

No. The nitrite reading was given in parts per billion, which is equivalent to 0.010 - 0.013 ppm. I'm skeptical that the Hanna checker can read nitrite accurately this low. Even if it can, these levels are not likely to be a problem in captive marine aquaria.

If the units were reported incorrectly, that's a different story. But as reported, the nitrites the OP reported, from my perspective, did not require addressing.

PPB...Apparently I don't read very well...

 

[Tbyram]

No. The nitrite reading was given in parts per billion, which is equivalent to 0.010 - 0.013 ppm. I'm skeptical that the Hanna checker can read nitrite accurately this low. Even if it can, these levels are not likely to be a problem in captive marine aquaria.

If the units were reported incorrectly, that's a different story. But as reported, the nitrites the OP reported, from my perspective, did not require addressing.

According to Hanna docs. -- this is the Nitrite ULR one.

Technical specifications:
Range 0 to 200 ppb
Resolution 1 ppb
Accuracy ±10 ppb ±4% of reading @ 25°C
Typical EMC Dev. ±10 ppb

I know it isn't a problem being low but confused on if I were able to increase the nitrates would it help color up SPS. There is so much debate here and recently there are some scary stories about dosing nitrates, I was thinking there may be a better more balanced way to do it. This is what prompted the questions.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

According to Hanna docs. -- this is the Nitrite ULR one.

Technical specifications:
Range 0 to 200 ppb
Resolution 1 ppb
Accuracy ±10 ppb ±4% of reading @ 25°C
Typical EMC Dev. ±10 ppb

I know it isn't a problem being low but confused on if I were able to increase the nitrates would it help color up SPS. There is so much debate here and recently there are some scary stories about dosing nitrates, I was thinking there may be a better more balanced way to do it. This is what prompted the questions.

Understood. I was under the impression you reported the units correctly, which is why I disregarded them almost entirely. I clarified my position on the Nitrite Checker in my previous post. At the end of the day, as you said, the level is very low, so it's likely not a problem.

From what I have read, the aquarists who experience problems dosing nitrates are using Spectracide, a potassium nitrate powder designed for dissolving tree stumps. This product is not designed for human consumption or for use in aquariums, and consequently, no guarantee is made about its purity. The problems with Spectracide are likely due to impurities in the product that present no problem for dissolving stumps, but may prove to be very harmful in reef aquaria.

If you choose a food-grade potassium or sodium nitrate supplement, there are no inherent problems associated with dosing nitrates, so long as you do your math and dose in proper quantities.

 

[Reefin Dude]

lengthen your drain lines. add bioballs/LR to any area that gets constantly exposed to air. any wet/dry areas. any area that is highly oxygenated will create nitrates.

G~

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

lengthen your drain lines. add bioballs/LR to any area that gets constantly exposed to air. any wet/dry areas. any area that is highly oxygenated will create nitrates.

G~

How would the bioballs or wet/dry areas "create" nitrates?

 

[Reefin Dude]

the break down of ammonia in a highly oxygenated environment leaves nitrates. the bacteria are not able to break down nitrates to N gas in a highly oxygenated area. denitrification.

G~

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

the break down of ammonia in a highly oxygenated environment leaves nitrates. the bacteria are not able to break down nitrates to N gas in a highly oxygenated area. denitrification.

G~

Correct, but live rock in the tank does this as well. If there is no ammonia to break down, then all the bioballs in the world will not "create" nitrates.

 

[Tbyram]

It's kinda funny. When I first started the hobby I was running bio balls in the sump. I was repeatedly told that they were nitrate factories by the LFS and since I thought I wanted 0 nitrates, I got rid of them. I guess things go full circle.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

It's kinda funny. When I first started the hobby I was running bio balls in the sump. I was repeatedly told that they were nitrate factories by the LFS and since I thought I wanted 0 nitrates, I got rid of them. I guess things go full circle.

This is a common misconception. The only way bioballs create nitrates is if they trap food and waste, which then decomposes into ammonia, which we all know then becomes nitrate. The same applies to filter socks and sand beds as well.

In our Living Seashore exhibit at the National Aquarium, we use bioballs on every single one of our large displays and touch pools. The water goes through sand filters and skimmers before it ever gets to the bioballs. We never have any nitrate problems because no food or waste gets trapped in the bioballs.

Bioballs are just a place for nitrifying bacteria to live, no more, no less. They are inert and cannot create nutrients. If you let them get dirty, your system's nitrates will go up. But the same is true about filter socks, sand beds, the surface of live rock, and any other area of the tank that might trap food or waste.

 

[Reefin Dude]

Correct, but live rock in the tank does this as well. If there is no ammonia to break down, then all the bioballs in the world will not "create" nitrates.

there is always going to be some free ammonia. AFAIK LR is not more of an ammonia magnet than bioballs. of course any colonizable material between the source and the bioballs will also be able to nitrify the ammonia.

from all i have read aerobic denitrification produces Nitros Oxide. there is not a way for bioballs to break ammonia/nitrite down to N gas without the production of nitros oxide. i am not saying that this is not occurring, as it could be, but i have not seen anything on this with respects to aquariums. i am also not sure of the toxicity of Nitrous oxide on our inhabitants. a quick search found nothing, so it may not be an issue, or it could just make a bunch of happy fish.

Global oceanic production of nitrous oxide

It's kinda funny. When I first started the hobby I was running bio balls in the sump. I was repeatedly told that they were nitrate factories by the LFS and since I thought I wanted 0 nitrates, I got rid of them. I guess things go full circle.

depending on when you started. the nitrates are bad scare was more due to the fact that "back in the day" one could not test for P and aquarists found that when nitrates went up, so did their problems with algae. nitrates got the bad rap when in fact it was mainly the P that was causing the problems. today, as long as we keep the decomposition of organics down, the P problem is easier to control and nitrates are now nitrates and P are more independent.

as chipmonkofdoom2 said, the biggest problem with bioballs, or any filter media for that matter is that it traps organic material. trapped organic material in highly oxygenated area speeds up decomposition. creating N, P, and CO2 as byproducts. another unfortunately side affect of this is the uptake of alk for C for this process.

G~

 

[Larry L]

Are you doing anything else that would reduce nitrates, like carbon dosing or running biopellets or using chaeto in your fuge? If so, I think it makes sense to back off on those (i.e. dose less, use fewer biopellets, prune your chaeto) and see if you can get nitrates to rise a bit, instead of dosing on top of other removal methods.