How to mature with no fish?

pulpfiction · Dec 25, 2022

What's the best way to help a tank mature without fish? My new tank is cycled and I have snails and some gsp in it. I drop a bit of reef roid into it once a week and use a algae wafers and bit of nori to feed the snails. I haven't started the ugly phase yet. Usually I would drop fish in but I'm going to have shrimp instead of fish in this tank. Is it too early to add shrimp?

I have a sponge filter seeded from my main tank but the rock in this tank is dry rock.

Tired · Dec 25, 2022

How did you cycle it, and how long ago was it fully cycled?

Reef Psychology · Dec 25, 2022

You’re already doing it if it’s already cycled. Just takes time. And I wouldn’t try to rush it unless you have a lot of experience with reefs. Patience is key.

pulpfiction · Dec 25, 2022

Tired said:
How did you cycle it, and how long ago was it fully cycled?

It was fully cycled almost 3 weeks ago. I cycled it with seeded media from my other tank and some rotting food.

Reef Psychology said:
You’re already doing it if it’s already cycled. Just takes time. And I wouldn’t try to rush it unless you have a lot of experience with reefs. Patience is key.

Yeah I'm trying to not speed it. This is my second tank but I always thought fish provided a lot of benefit to maturing a tank? The snails are doing good and the GSP is happy. I'm not sure what steps I should take next. I want to add shrimp and rock flowers at some point but not sure when the tank will be mature enough. Or if it needs a boost without fish.

Tired · Dec 25, 2022

You're probably ready for shrimp, assuming the other tank is decently mature, though moving a chunk of rock from that other tank wouldn't go amiss. Rock flowers, you'll want to wait awhile for.

If I were you, I might pick up a couple of hermit crabs and start feeding them every day/every couple of days. It benefits a tank's ecosystem to have something being fed regularly.

Maturity is a result of the ecosystem figuring itself out. Nutrients help, as a barren tank can't do anything ecosystem-wise, but fish aren't mandatory. You will want to feed the anemones regularly, since they won't be getting fish scraps/fish poo/etc, but that's no hardship.

Glenner’sreef · Dec 25, 2022

Time and stability matures a tank. Fish?

vetteguy53081 · Dec 25, 2022

pulpfiction said:
What's the best way to help a tank mature without fish? My new tank is cycled and I have snails and some gsp in it. I drop a bit of reef roid into it once a week and use a algae wafers and bit of nori to feed the snails. I haven't started the ugly phase yet. Usually I would drop fish in but I'm going to have shrimp instead of fish in this tank. Is it too early to add shrimp?

I have a sponge filter seeded from my main tank but the rock in this tank is dry rock.

How did you cycle it and for how long?
Did you have a rise then fall in ammonia levels? Shrimp would be fine if you have a verified cycle and food source for it. The problem with a just cycled tank and a shrimp is the potential spikes and changes in chemistry especially nitrate and ammonia level changes.

Tamberav · Dec 25, 2022

pulpfiction said:
It was fully cycled almost 3 weeks ago. I cycled it with seeded media from my other tank and some rotting food.

Yeah I'm trying to not speed it. This is my second tank but I always thought fish provided a lot of benefit to maturing a tank? The snails are doing good and the GSP is happy. I'm not sure what steps I should take next. I want to add shrimp and rock flowers at some point but not sure when the tank will be mature enough. Or if it needs a boost without fish.

Fish just poop in it...

Snails also poop... and worms... and pods...

Fish are not needed in any special way.

I guess you need to define what you mean by 'mature' - fish do nothing special... they do not add pods/sponges/feather dusters, etc. Live rock would do that.

Otherwise it is just time and adding diversity.

pulpfiction · Dec 25, 2022

vetteguy53081 said:
How did you cycle it and for how long?
Did you have a rise then fall in ammonia levels? Shrimp would be fine if you have a verified cycle and food source for it. The problem with a just cycled tank and a shrimp is the potential spikes and changes in chemistry especially nitrate and ammonia level changes.

Cycled it with established sponge filter media. Seeded from my older tank. New tank has been up for 60 days. I threw in algae wafers and nori to feed bacteria. And a dead snail. It's pretty stable for a new tank but I wouldn't call it stable.

pulpfiction · Dec 25, 2022

Tamberav said:
Fish just poop in it...

Snails also poop... and worms... and pods...

Fish are not needed in any special way.

I guess you need to define what you mean by 'mature' - fish do nothing special... they do not add pods/sponges/feather dusters, etc. Live rock would do that.

Otherwise it is just time and adding diversity.

That's why i'm in the newbie section lol. It's probably a dumb question. What I mean by mature is supportive enough for what I want to add. Anemones and shrimp. I want to 'mature' the tank for them.

Glenner’sreef · Dec 25, 2022

No such a thing as a dumb question! As mentioned earlier zero ammonia, low nitrates buy a shrimp. The general consensus with anemones are one year tank maturity. Your chances are real good with both of those.

Reef Psychology · Dec 25, 2022

pulpfiction said:
That's why i'm in the newbie section lol. It's probably a dumb question. What I mean by mature is supportive enough for what I want to add. Anemones and shrimp. I want to 'mature' the tank for them.

You can add something like Aquaforest Life Bio Fil to vary and bolster your biome. Helped me quite a bit, but truthfully you can do the same just buying a fish and waiting a few months.

vetteguy53081 · Dec 25, 2022

pulpfiction said:
Cycled it with established sponge filter media. Seeded from my older tank. New tank has been up for 60 days. I threw in algae wafers and nori to feed bacteria. And a dead snail. It's pretty stable for a new tank but I wouldn't call it stable.

A tank when cycled will best be started with ammonia chloride forcing ammonia levels to rise then fall and nitrate allowed to rise and fall. A dead snail may very well worked but you will want to monitor the rise then falls and when ammonia drops to zero and remains at zero for 5 days and Nitrate drops to 20 or below and remains there for 5 days , you are cycled. A typical cycle lasts 14-21 days and its important to monitor with reliable test kits. Sponge media will help with denitrification. Adding liquid bacteria such as Micro Bacter XLM or 7 will help boost these cultures

pulpfiction · Dec 25, 2022

Reef Psychology said:
You can add something like Aquaforest Life Bio Fil to vary and bolster your biome. Helped me quite a bit, but truthfully you can do the same just buying a fish and waiting a few months.

vetteguy53081 said:
A tank when cycled will best be started with ammonia chloride forcing ammonia levels to rise then fall and nitrate allowed to rise and fall. A dead snail may very well worked but you will want to monitor the rise then falls and when ammonia drops to zero and remains at zero for 5 days and Nitrate drops to 20 or below and remains there for 5 days , you are cycled. A typical cycle lasts 14-21 days and its important to monitor with reliable test kits. Sponge media will help with denitrification. Adding liquid bacteria such as Micro Bacter XLM or 7 will help boost these cultures

I don't have plans to ever house fish in this tank and I've never gone fishless before.

Oh right. I did add a bottle of brightwell bacteria at the start. I have ceramic media soaking in my main tank that I might throw in in a couple weeks. The sponge I added at the start had been in my main tank for over a year. It has 3 fish in it and is fed pretty heavily. I'm not sure if the ceramic media will help any. I don't have any established rock not being used that I can move over unfortunately. I have seen 0 ammonia for a week. That's how long I've had GSP in it too. I've had snails in it almost from the start since it doubles as my snail quarantine.

vetteguy53081 · Dec 25, 2022

pulpfiction said:
I don't have plans to ever house fish in this tank and I've never gone fishless before.

Oh right. I did add a bottle of brightwell bacteria at the start. I have ceramic media soaking in my main tank that I might throw in in a couple weeks. The sponge I added at the start had been in my main tank for over a year. It has 3 fish in it and is fed pretty heavily. I'm not sure if the ceramic media will help any. I don't have any established rock not being used that I can move over unfortunately. I have seen 0 ammonia for a week. That's how long I've had GSP in it too. I've had snails in it almost from the start since it doubles as my snail quarantine.

Sounds like you had a plan and looks like things will go well.

AgentKooper · Jan 2, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
A tank when cycled will best be started with ammonia chloride forcing ammonia levels to rise then fall and nitrate allowed to rise and fall. A dead snail may very well worked but you will want to monitor the rise then falls and when ammonia drops to zero and remains at zero for 5 days and Nitrate drops to 20 or below and remains there for 5 days , you are cycled. A typical cycle lasts 14-21 days and its important to monitor with reliable test kits. Sponge media will help with denitrification. Adding liquid bacteria such as Micro Bacter XLM or 7 will help boost these cultures

How does nitrate fall without a water change?

GARRIGA · Jan 2, 2023

Since ammonium being introduce to feed the inverts then the biological media will continue to mature. Having fish is irrelevant.

vetteguy53081 · Jan 2, 2023

AgentKooper said:
How does nitrate fall without a water change?

When there are no new load on the bacteria and tank, they will decrease. Denitrification reduces nitrate

AgentKooper · Jan 2, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
A tank when cycled will best be started with ammonia chloride forcing ammonia levels to rise then fall and nitrate allowed to rise and fall. A dead snail may very well worked but you will want to monitor the rise then falls and when ammonia drops to zero and remains at zero for 5 days and Nitrate drops to 20 or below and remains there for 5 days , you are cycled. A typical cycle lasts 14-21 days and its important to monitor with reliable test kits. Sponge media will help with denitrification. Adding liquid bacteria such as Micro Bacter XLM or 7 will help boost these cultures

How does nitrate fall without a water change?

vetteguy53081 said:
When there are no new load on the bacteria and tank, they will decrease. Denitrification reduces nitrate

So, for example, I dosed my new tank (dry rock and live sand) with ammonia and waited for ammonia and nitrite to zero out, and my nitrates are now super high -- over 100 ppm. If I do nothing further to the tank, the nitrates will eventually disappear on their own? How long should this take?

vetteguy53081 · Jan 2, 2023

AgentKooper said:
How does nitrate fall without a water change?

So, for example, I dosed my new tank (dry rock and live sand) with ammonia and waited for ammonia and nitrite to zero out, and my nitrates are now super high -- over 100 ppm. If I do nothing further to the tank, the nitrates will eventually disappear on their own? How long should this take?

They will decrease and will be 10-14 days ( assuming your test kit is accurate)