How to move forward?

Dakota · May 22, 2016

Hey everyone. I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting here. I got into the reefkeeping business like most - without any clue what I was doing. I went to a LFS to get a goldfish and was talked into a 20g high system. I know my setup is seriously defficient, and while most would just flush the fish and breakdown the tank, I have grown rather fond of them and would prefer to be able to provide them with an environment in which to flourish. It pains me a great deal to know they may be suffering.

Below I've posted my tank spec's and a few questions and a couple pictures.

20g high, 2 circulators rated for 10-20g, 15lbs LR, 20lbs LS, Aqueon 20g heater, Fluval 30 HOB with foam and bioballs removed (LR rubble and carbon pouch)

1. Currently my tank has a pair of juvy clowns, a YWG, and a firefish goby. Everyone but the clowns stay hidden in the rock all day, so I've been thinking about substituting the firefish for something that spends more time with the clowns in the water column. I could also remove the YWG and take both to a LFS to reduce the bioload. Any ideas?

2. Is it possible to convert my fluval 30 HOB into something useful?

3. My snails and hermits keep dying. Tank is between 5-6 months old, parameters are all good. I've been checking levels every day for 4 weeks. Maybe a copper issue? If so how do I fix that?

4. Any other suggestions for how to improve this setup? I've been indisposed for the past 6 months with work, but I have a bit of extra free time now to tinker with the tank. I'm poor, and I live in an apartment, so I can't upgrade any bigger at the moment. But I could add corals/fish/rock/sand, I can rearrange stuff, whatever. Again, this is my first tank.

michellejy · May 22, 2016

Are *all* of your snails and hermits dead? Is there a chance you have a hitchhiker in your rock killing them? What leads you to think it might be copper?

I don't think anyone would recommend flushing your fish or trashing the whole setup. My first saltwater tank a million years ago was a 20 high with a HOB filter.

Dakota · May 22, 2016

michellejy said:
Are *all* of your snails and hermits dead? Is there a chance you have a hitchhiker in your rock killing them? What leads you to think it might be copper?

I don't think anyone would recommend flushing your fish or trashing the whole setup. My first saltwater tank a million years ago was a 20 high with a HOB filter.

I've been told that converting from freshwater to saltwater can result in toxic levels of copper, and that's what I did. I don't think hitchhikers are likely in this case.

michellejy · May 22, 2016

At the risk of asking a stupid question, what makes you think your freshwater system had copper?

Reeferfourlife · May 22, 2016

First, what is your parameters at? I do see some algae on rock and glass.
Second, your bio load is not so much for this tank size.
Third, you can use your hob with just 2 sponge to house bacteria and a bag of carbon. Make you you rinse it every week with salt water to clean it but not kill off the bacteria.
Also you could add more rocks.

germs101 · May 22, 2016

My most successful tank to date was with a HOB filter. I now have a 265 gal with sump and skimmer, but I still question whether the ideology that " bigger is easier" is right. I think a set up like you have is perfect. Keep the bioload low, and you'll be fine.

If you ever dosed copper your tank will never allow for inverts.

Salty1962 · May 22, 2016

Welcome to R@R!
You're not breaking any rules, in fact you are starting on what will be a wonderful experience, Salt Water Tanks. You're on the perfect site for any questions you may have and a WHOLE lot of information that you can read to educate yourself to salt water tanks. The biggest recommendation I can give you that will resonate through your whole hobby experience is " Take Baby Steps! ". As it is said, nothing happens quick in this hobby. Good luck and keep us posted. Looks like a good start on your tank.

melypr1985 · May 22, 2016

Welcome to R2R! We are glad to have you!

I agree with the others. No need to start over or flush anybody. Your tank looks pretty good but adding some more live rock would never hurt. Live rock is your main filtration in the tank so it's very important to have good quality and enough to support your livestock. So far your live stock doesn't seem to be too much for the tank. The firefish should come out during the day and spend some time out in the open. They will tend to dart back into the rocks when you approach the tank because they are pretty skittish. When I had mine, it got to the point that it would tolerate my presence only because I brought food with me. lol.

The copper thing is something else all together. I've never heard that converting a fresh to salt would result in copper being present. As far as I know, the only way for copper to be present is if it's introduced to the tank. So did you ever use copper in your freshwater tank? Or did somebody use it with that live rock or any of the equipment without cleaning it after? You can always have somebody test the water for copper, but I dont think that's the problem here.

Remember to take your time stocking this tank. Nothing good ever happens fast here. If it happened fast, it made you cry and hurt your wallet.

Kentech5 · May 22, 2016

Some polyfilter in the HOB might pick up copper if theres any in your system. That said I am not sure how going from fresh to salt would lead to salt in the system.

Dakota · May 23, 2016

Thank you all for your replies! I've never introduced copper to the system, so I guess that's not the answer. Any suggestions about how I should modify my bioload? What are my options?

Also, I was told that my aquascaping, background, and equipment all look like a novice. Any suggestions there?

Salty1962 · May 23, 2016

Nothing novice to my eyes. I like the open scape. How long has your tank been up?
You need to give your tank enough time to cycle through. When first setup, your tank will go through several cycles depending on what you used to set it up. It appears that you started with live rock(LR) and live sand(LS). Your system will go through these cycles while establishing a good bacterial colony; 1st buildup will be ammonia, toxic to most everything in you tank, 2nd the ammonia is converted to Nitrites(NO2) also very toxic to your tank, 3rd the NO2 converts to Nitrates(NO3) non toxic and is the final cycle you'll go through. How you started and what you put in your tank are of course variables and can effect the cycles. NO3 is a by product from your tank organisms refuse. You also get Phosphate(PO4) mostly from the food you feed your tank. You want to keep these at a low level if you decide to go with corals. Different corals have different requirements. Always understand what you're adding to your tank and the environment it exists in the wild.
You need to get good test kits to be able to monitor the elements discussed. I know there are many other well versed folks who will chime in as well to help you move along in a successful manner.
There are many other things, lighting, filtration, husbandry practices, to do for a pleasurable tank. As stated before, take "Baby Steps", read and inquire as you progress with your tank and it will be a pleasurable thing to watch. JMHO

Kentech5 · May 23, 2016

Kentech5 said:
Some polyfilter in the HOB might pick up copper if theres any in your system. That said I am not sure how going from fresh to salt would lead to salt in the system.

Copper in the system. Yikes i am doing that a lot lately.

Dakota · May 23, 2016

Thanks again guys, you've all been great helps. If my bioload looks light, what would you guys suggest adding? A pair of Benggai Cardinals?

Reeferfourlife · May 23, 2016

First get some more rocks to build up the filtration for more bioload. Then you can add the cardinals. Think the pajamas cardinal are more colorful.

azbigjohn · May 23, 2016

I think your tank looks fine, Welcome to R2R!

How many snails and hermits are we talking about? Sometimes hermits will kill snails for their shells as they grow, it is also possible that they didn't have enough food when first added, that now that you have algae, they would do better.

The Yellow Watchman Goby often comes out, or peaks out from their burrow, but will quickly scurry back until they get more used to you coming up to the tank. Firefish are very skittish, and will always zoon back into a "dart hole" somewhere if they see movement around the tank. Pajama cardnials (or Banghi, if you prefer) are good water column swimmers, but often will fight unless they are a matched pair added at the exact same time.

Hang in there, and welcome to your new addiction!

jsker · May 23, 2016

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Method this is the simplest system of bio filtration, it is what I am running. If there was copper in the fresh water, and you started over, which it sounds like. You have a glass tank and the only copper that would be in the current system is if you use the filtration form the the fresh water and in the silicone in the glass seams. This will leach out soon then later with water changes over time. The amount of copper is small or none. Most likely the reason you crabs and snail are dying is there is not enough food for them.
What are you parameters and do you track them? Fluctuations in the environment can also lead to loss

And welcome to R2R and this is a good question

Dakota · May 23, 2016

You guys are great

michellejy · May 23, 2016

Dakota said:
Thank you all for your replies! I've never introduced copper to the system, so I guess that's not the answer. Any suggestions about how I should modify my bioload? What are my options?

Also, I was told that my aquascaping, background, and equipment all look like a novice. Any suggestions there?

Well, your background will eventually have a nice cover of coraline algae, so unless you hate that look, it doesn't really matter. Nothing is standing out as being wrong with your background in my eyes, regardless. Maybe there is something in person that I am missing, but it is certainly not an eyesore.

You don't need crazy equipment. You can add more live rock as suggested above and use it to hide some of your equipment, although don't lean any rock against equipment, of course

As an added bonus, with more hiding spaces, shy fish like firefish will often become a bit more bold and be out a little more. When they know they have a lot of options to quickly escape, they can be a bit less skittish.

I had a pair of Bangaii cardinals before. They are beautiful fish, and they seem to just hover in place. If you want something a bit more colorful and active, a clown goby could be a good option.

I also have a scarlet cleaner shrimp, and it is ALWAYS all over the tank. If it is just an underfeeding issue, you shouldn't have any issue keeping one happy in your tank.

Good luck, and definitely keep going. You have healthy fish, and that is a great start.