Lionfish Lair
Renee
I don't see anything of concern in the scrapings.
How to preserve body for autopsy?
- Thread starter GHsaltie
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Lionfish Lair
Renee
Yes, that's probably what it is then.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Can you lift up the gill casing and see if the filaments are pale?
Lionfish Lair
Renee
What's the scientific genus for this fish? I don't have access to my photos, but I have some references I can go poke around in.
melypr1985
totally addicted
zebrasoma ? Not sure of genuses and what-not but these are zebrasoma tangs.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Thanks!
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Hah! I don't wanna look in YOUR fridge!
OP
OP
GHsaltie
Valuable Member
That's a little bit creepy....
OP
OP
GHsaltie
Valuable Member
I just double checked the gills, looks normal as far as I can tell just a bit on the red side. I couldn't really distinguish the actual filaments, sounds silly I know. I saw something that kind of looked like the filaments, and it was a bit pale compared to everything else, but it was very flattened to the inside, no matter how much I pried the gill open.
Good guess; some viruses can affect internal organs. Lymphocystis nodules, for example, will sometimes grow over important organs.
Zebrasoma flavescens
alanbetiger
Active Member
I have a BS in Zoology and DVM for the past 10 years.
Gross dissection won't give you a lot of information.
Typically would need a skin scrape, gill scrape and fecal exam to check for parasites. Anything else you'd need a microscopic exam and yeah freezing tissue is not ideal since the water crystal formation can disrupt cell integrity.
With the frayed fins it either got attacked because it was sick or could be what allowed a parasite to overtake the system from the stress. Don't know the chicken or the egg.
If you ever really want a true necropsy any vet can send off the entire body to Idexx or ANTECH lab. All vets have access to those services. It can be pricey though.
My 2 cents is 9 times out of 10 fish deaths in aquaria are parasitic.
Gross dissection won't give you a lot of information.
Typically would need a skin scrape, gill scrape and fecal exam to check for parasites. Anything else you'd need a microscopic exam and yeah freezing tissue is not ideal since the water crystal formation can disrupt cell integrity.
With the frayed fins it either got attacked because it was sick or could be what allowed a parasite to overtake the system from the stress. Don't know the chicken or the egg.
If you ever really want a true necropsy any vet can send off the entire body to Idexx or ANTECH lab. All vets have access to those services. It can be pricey though.
My 2 cents is 9 times out of 10 fish deaths in aquaria are parasitic.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Welcome!welcome! You are a good resource to have around!
I'm running across a lot of resources talking about yellow tangs and streaks, is this a common issue for these guys? I know NOTHING about tangs.
I'm running across a lot of resources talking about yellow tangs and streaks, is this a common issue for these guys? I know NOTHING about tangs.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Alan, what do you think about the dark organs? I've never seen them look like this and I've cut into a lot of fish over the years. The class I took on necropsies never showed this as a common issue either and this guy was opened pretty quickly after death.
At first I was thinking blood, but there doesn't seem to be any free blood in the cavity. It reminds me of necrosis. Those organs are too dark for it not to be a related finding.
Necropsies are not something to lead to a definitive diagnosis, but they give clues along with the external findings, behaviors, the environment, timelines etc etc. They are all pieces to a puzzle. Without the ability to perform cultures and analyze blood samples, it's pretty much all we have to solve our own problems and to choose appropriate interventions. I've been lucky over the years in that I had someone to run these tests for me, but the first necropsies I had sent out about 18 years ago was $150 dollars, so they are out of reach of many hobbyists. I have no idea of the cost today and if you didn't have someone local, often times there's the extra cost of overnight shipping.
At first I was thinking blood, but there doesn't seem to be any free blood in the cavity. It reminds me of necrosis. Those organs are too dark for it not to be a related finding.
Necropsies are not something to lead to a definitive diagnosis, but they give clues along with the external findings, behaviors, the environment, timelines etc etc. They are all pieces to a puzzle. Without the ability to perform cultures and analyze blood samples, it's pretty much all we have to solve our own problems and to choose appropriate interventions. I've been lucky over the years in that I had someone to run these tests for me, but the first necropsies I had sent out about 18 years ago was $150 dollars, so they are out of reach of many hobbyists. I have no idea of the cost today and if you didn't have someone local, often times there's the extra cost of overnight shipping.
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alanbetiger
Active Member
Unfortunately I won't be an amazing help. Probably extremely little help actually. Sorry.
I agree there appears to be damage but I suspect more secondary to the issue then the primary problem. I would expect a parasite but without samples would not be able to definitively diagnosis.
Someone from the local Dallas club had a question about a obvious external parasite and I called around and finally spoke with a fish only veterinarian in New York. His personal marine fish would undergo copper treatment and praziquantel in two separate quarantine tanks. They would start in one tank then once a skin scrape, scale examination and fill scrape was negative move to the next tank. Again pass negative testing before going into his display. He still had entire tank deaths from parasites.
So much of this hobby is a psuedoscience with out true reproducible diagnostics, testing, and treatments. Most of the information is hearsay and since it worked for someone who had a bunch of tanks it must be true. The only true veterinary textbook I could find years ago was from 1980 and still said using saltwater from the ocean was a good idea for water changes.
I agree there appears to be damage but I suspect more secondary to the issue then the primary problem. I would expect a parasite but without samples would not be able to definitively diagnosis.
Someone from the local Dallas club had a question about a obvious external parasite and I called around and finally spoke with a fish only veterinarian in New York. His personal marine fish would undergo copper treatment and praziquantel in two separate quarantine tanks. They would start in one tank then once a skin scrape, scale examination and fill scrape was negative move to the next tank. Again pass negative testing before going into his display. He still had entire tank deaths from parasites.
So much of this hobby is a psuedoscience with out true reproducible diagnostics, testing, and treatments. Most of the information is hearsay and since it worked for someone who had a bunch of tanks it must be true. The only true veterinary textbook I could find years ago was from 1980 and still said using saltwater from the ocean was a good idea for water changes.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
It's after midnight here, so I'll have to continue this in the morning, but anyone still reading/researching, look into yellow tangs and red streaks and see what treatments were helpful. I'll look into my journals tomorrow and then when I get home next week, I'll bust out my books to see what other puzzle pieces we can find.
alanbetiger
Active Member
He's a better resource
http://www.petfishdoctor.com/
http://www.petfishdoctor.com/
