How to promote nitrifying bacteria

[Ert]

I understand that carbon dosing is used to promote denitrifying bacteria is order to convert nitrates into nitrogen gas.

However, what can be done to promote the nitrifying bacteria, in order to promote the conversion of ammonia to nitrites and nitrites into nitrates? Besides, those bacteria in a bottle.

By carbon dosing, such as vodka, would this in the process, promote both nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria?

I'm very curious about the levels of ammonia in our tanks as most people focus primarily on nitrates and phosphates reduction.

 

[brandon429]

Nothing is ever needed to boost those after a cycle is complete

Once a tank is cycled, what you add or don't add to control ammonia levels for a given bioload is surface area, rocks or sand.

Nature provides continuing input of nitrifiers into our tank, and our tank also vectors them back out into nature constantly, nitrifiers exchange with the world. Once cycled, if kept wet and not medicated, a given surface area cannot retroscale back to non cycled even if we withheld any feeding for years, they will just hold state and always pass the cycling test.

There are myriad ways we manage nonfiltration bacteria with additives and such, nitrifiers need nothing from us. They're the toughest group of organisms we keep, they need only water.

 

[brandon429]

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/383510-ammonia-processing-rate-of-established-tank/

De proof

 

[Ert]

If a cycled tank was to be thrown off balance from overfeeding, with a large ammonia spike, what could be done to regain it's balance?
Would only water changes and time correct this issue?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

One of the things I hope to see when the Mindstream becomes widely available is continuous tracking of ammonia. We do not have any good low level data for reef tanks. But in general, established reef tanks do not typically seem to have kit-detectable ammonia and I'm not sure "promoting" the growth of nitrifying bacteria is useful (or possible, short of dosing ammonia).

The denitrifying process necessarily involves organic matter (not all nitrate consuming processes use organics, of course, but "denitrification" does):

organic + 124 NO3– + 124 H+ → 122 CO2 + 70 N2 + 208 H2O

but the nitrifying process does not:

NH4+ + 3/2 O2 --> NO2- + 2H+ + H2O

NO2- + ½ O2 --> NO3-

 

[Ert]

Would carbon dosing during cycling have negative effects as it would promote denitrifiers? In a sense, out competing the nitrifier and throwing the cycle out of wack?

I'm wondering for people with tanks that are facing algae issues but are not detecting nitrates and PO4, might be facing an issue with ammonia. Possible incomplete cycling, overfeeding and so forth.

 

[brandon429]

No

Only a medication event will change a cycling tank's already known completion time frame.

We do not have to test any aquarium to know how long it takes to cycle it it's a submersion time frame factor not an API reading factor. If we spike a bunch of extra things to the Wastewater then it's going to test all crazy at the end of the cycle but in reality the bacteria laid down just the same

We could simply do a large water change, retest the system for oxidation and it would pass.


Once cycled you do not have to concern about nitrifiers but you can add more surface area if you have a concern

Algae is the problem you'll get in the above condition. A nano reef never has to worry about being in your situation cuz we just change all the water instantly and be through with the waste.

A large tank would be ideally handled by siphoning out individual excess you can see and then increasing your export for a while


There's not any reasonable situation including all variation we will encounter in aquarium keeping that you will ever have to consider what filtration bacteria do.

Our tanks handle minor spikes of ammonia just fine... after all these worms have a finite life-span.

If you have an accident prone situation going on, or want insurance, then install a huge surface area filter such as a set of Bio balls 1998 or a padded filtration approach is the specific offset for risky ammonia spikes or high bioloading. That's what fish aquaculture facilities do.


So in the end if you have a concern over nitrifiers what you add or subtract is surface area don't focus on the actual bacteria

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Would carbon dosing during cycling have negative effects as it would promote denitrifiers? In a sense, out competing the nitrifier and throwing the cycle out of wack?

Promoting denitrification does not alter nitrifying bacteria since it is consuming their waste (nitrate), not their food (ammonia and nitrite).

However, carbon dosing promotes simple aerobic growth of bacteria (not nitrifying or denitrifying) which can consume ammonia or nitrite or nitrate, and that may reduce the growth of nitrifying bacteria.

That still isn't a concern, as long as you keep dosing it, but if you suddenly stop the organic carbon, you may find insufficient nitrifying bacteria.

FWIW, I don't think we really know how important nitrifying bacteria actually are in an established reef tank, where we have lots of other potential users of ammonia, such as macroalgae, microalgae, corals, etc.

Much of the focus on the nitrogen cycle comes from issues with pure fish tanks, and I'm not sure it usefully extrapolates to established reef tanks with lots of photosynthetic organisms, many of which prefer ammonia to nitrate as a nitrogen source.

 

[Ert]

So carbon dosing can in a sense compete with nitrifiers for nutrients but as long as you continue dosing, you'll be fine.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So carbon dosing can in a sense compete with nitrifiers for nutrients but as long as you continue dosing, you'll be fine.

That's my expectation.

In general, I think it is very clear that after initial cycling, ammonia toxicity is just not an issue in reef tanks.

 

[Tyler_Fishman]

If you want to promote bacterial growth add mediums to your tank with populations of bacteria already on them, live rock/live sand, My tank cycled quicker due to me putting sand I collected from the ocean in my tank

 

[brandon429]

yep that will beat any diversity we could ever purchase off a shelf. one drop of seawater accomplishes that, anything beyond is a cornucopia