How to Quarantine

[ppatches24]

So lets say that I have a DT and I put a tomini tang in there 2 days ago, now it looks as if it has ich... Maybe the male clown as well? Should I move the little Tomini tang (All the fish?) into a QT tank that I have an do treatment? I do have a mandrin, 2 clowns and a fairy wrasse. Any thoughts?

 

[BeejReef]

Sandbox Sand in QT?

So, yes, I know home depot sand is frowned upon in a DT.
Is it acceptable in an observational QT?

The basic premise is a 20g observational qt that can be converted to hospital tank with removal of all/most sand and rock, drop in pvc, and ramping of chelated copper.
Clearly, a lot less flow than an sps tank and, obviously, if I see ich, velvet, urenoma, the sand is getting chucked. I'm thinking 1/2" of sand sitting on something like a school lunch tray, some disposable rock, a little macro. I have some cycled ceramic cubes in my DT sump for ammonia control. I'm told they don't significantly impact copper levels. I consider them disposable as well.

ISO that "low stress" observational qt. My DT is not sterile. No visible signs of ich, but no guarantees either.

 

[Anthonyl]

I know this is probably been asked before. I'm getting some fish from someone in town and would like to qt the fish to make sure. I just went through having all my fish in qt and dont want to do that again. Can I skip prazipro and go straight to cupramine treatment?

 

[SeeFu]

Humble started this thread saying that prazipro should be done first and then copper. Can you does both Praziquantel and COpper at the sametime?

 

[Twodogsnnc]

No dumb questions! How long are you planning to treat with copper? There are two methods that work... one would be 14 days of copper, followed by transfer to a second un-medicated QT for observation. You don't lower the copper before the transfer. The second method (if you only have one QT to work with) is to run copper for 30 days, then remove with cuprisorb/carbon and a large waterchange.

In either instance, I'd suggest a 2-week observation period sans copper to make sure treatment was successful. At that point they will no longer be in copper so you can just transfer them right over

Question on this... if I can only either run copper for 23-24 days before a big water change / cuprisorb OR leave the fish in copper for 34 days before removing the copper... which is the better option? One other option would be to move to DT after 14 + days. Thanks.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Question on this... if I can only either run copper for 23-24 days before a big water change / cuprisorb OR leave the fish in copper for 34 days before removing the copper... which is the better option? One other option would be to move to DT after 14 + days. Thanks.

34 days, most definitely. I would not transfer to the DT without an observation period if at all possible, you still need to keep an eye out for those not treated by copper (flukes, brook, uronema, etc) and also in the rare chance that something survived the copper. All it takes is a short window of opportunity where copper dips below therapeutic, or a more robust strain of parasite that remains encysted longer than the “typical” time-frame, and the treatment could fail. Better to catch it in observation rather than your DT [emoji15]

 

[Twodogsnnc]

34 days, most definitely. I would not transfer to the DT without an observation period if at all possible, you still need to keep an eye out for those not treated by copper (flukes, brook, uronema, etc) and also in the rare chance that something survived the copper. All it takes is a short window of opportunity where copper dips below therapeutic, or a more robust strain of parasite that remains encysted longer than the “typical” time-frame, and the treatment could fail. Better to catch it in observation rather than your DT [emoji15]

Thanks. I am leading with Prazipro (2 doses 6 days apart) and then will run copper power for 34 days. I plan to start food medicated with gc (for 10-14 days) as I have seen some white stringy poop and some odd bulges that may indicate worms. Medicated food will be fed during prazipro. After the 34 days of copper I will observe for 7 days and then move to DT. Does this seem reasonable? Anything else I should do? Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[chunkysoup56]

@Humblefish this is my first attempt at your QT method. I got a blue hippo tang acclimated and eating for several days prior to starting Prazipro as you suggested..... After starting it, I’m now on day 3 where it hasn’t eaten anything. Would you suggest large WC + carbon?????

Obviously the priority is to getting it to eat again. Would you suggest I skip the 2nd round of Prazipro and start with copper???

 

[living_tribunal]

@Humblefish has anyone noted success in killing Tomonts on coral using a form of bronopol?

I know they utilize bronopol in salmon breeding to effectively eliminate tomonts, wondering if some form of the medication can be used on coral.

"Exposure of encysted tomonts (min. 8 cell stage) to 100 mg L(-1) bronopol for 30 min, killed 50% within this period, with the remainder dying within the subsequent 42 h post exposure. Lower doses of bronopol were less effective in killing encysted tomonts than the higher doses (3.3% of parasites were killed in 20 mg L(-1); 10% in 50 mg L(-1)), but they still delayed theront release significantly (25.7 h for 0 mg L(-1) to 46.2h for parasites exposed to 20-50 mg L(-1)). Long, low dose (1 mg L(-1)) exposure to bronopol was also efficacious against theronts. Survival after 12h was 29% (c.f. 100% in control parasites), and <1% after 24 h exposure (c.f. 74% in control parasites). "

The anti-protozoal activity of bronopol on the key life-stages of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet, 1876 (Ciliophora) - PubMed

Pyceze™ (Novartis Animal Vaccines Ltd.) is licensed as a veterinary medicine to treat fungal infections in salmon, trout and their eggs. The active ingredient is bronopol, which due to its broad-spectrum activity has the potential to be an effective treatment against other important aquatic...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://floridadep.gov/system/files/Day%201_Intervention%20Methodologies%20Workshop%20Summary_2017.11.06_Final%20Approved.pdf

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish has anyone noted success in killing Tomonts on coral using a form of bronopol?

I know they utilize bronopol in salmon breeding to effectively eliminate tomonts, wondering if some form of the medication can be used on coral.

"Exposure of encysted tomonts (min. 8 cell stage) to 100 mg L(-1) bronopol for 30 min, killed 50% within this period, with the remainder dying within the subsequent 42 h post exposure. Lower doses of bronopol were less effective in killing encysted tomonts than the higher doses (3.3% of parasites were killed in 20 mg L(-1); 10% in 50 mg L(-1)), but they still delayed theront release significantly (25.7 h for 0 mg L(-1) to 46.2h for parasites exposed to 20-50 mg L(-1)). Long, low dose (1 mg L(-1)) exposure to bronopol was also efficacious against theronts. Survival after 12h was 29% (c.f. 100% in control parasites), and <1% after 24 h exposure (c.f. 74% in control parasites). "

The anti-protozoal activity of bronopol on the key life-stages of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet, 1876 (Ciliophora) - PubMed

Pyceze™ (Novartis Animal Vaccines Ltd.) is licensed as a veterinary medicine to treat fungal infections in salmon, trout and their eggs. The active ingredient is bronopol, which due to its broad-spectrum activity has the potential to be an effective treatment against other important aquatic...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://floridadep.gov/system/files/Day%201_Intervention%20Methodologies%20Workshop%20Summary_2017.11.06_Final%20Approved.pdf

Interesting! I've put in a request for the full study. It was done on Freshwater Ich, but may very well apply to Cryptocaryon as well. Anyone got some Xenia they want to expose to bronopol for 48 hours??

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Interesting! I've put in a request for the full study. It was done on Freshwater Ich, but may very well apply to Cryptocaryon as well. Anyone got some Xenia they want to expose to bronopol for 48 hours??

With everything you have contributed I imagine some would be ready to give you Walt Disney acro to try . I have some sofites (anthelia and kenya tree) if you want to try it, would be curious how it holds up.

 

[living_tribunal]

Interesting! I've put in a request for the full study. It was done on Freshwater Ich, but may very well apply to Cryptocaryon as well. Anyone got some Xenia they want to expose to bronopol for 48 hours??

I know of at least one fresh water parasitic that contains bronopol available in the uk.

From what I’ve read, bronopol is significantly less toxic than malachite green and actually eliminates encysted tomonts on salmon.

If a solution worked on coral it might be disruptive.

 

[Humblefish]

I know of at least one fresh water parasitic that contains bronopol available in the uk.

From what I’ve read, bronopol is significantly less toxic than malachite green and actually eliminates encysted tomonts on salmon.

If a solution worked on coral it might be disruptive.

Do you have the full study? Tomonts typically encyst to hard surfaces. It's very rare to find them on a fish. The feeding trophont stage is what fish usually carry.

BUT if bronopol can eliminate tomonts (the hardest life stage to kill), I'm wondering if it can also remove trophonts from an infected fish? As it stands right now, only Chlorine, Benzalkonium chloride, Drying/dessication and heat are considered reliable disinfection methods for Crypto tomonts.

 

[living_tribunal]

Do you have the full study? Tomonts typically encyst to hard surfaces. It's very rare to find them on a fish. The feeding trophont stage is what fish usually carry.

BUT if bronopol can eliminate tomonts (the hardest life stage to kill), I'm wondering if it can also remove trophonts from an infected fish? As it stands right now, only Chlorine, Benzalkonium chloride, Drying/dessication and heat are considered reliable disinfection methods for Crypto tomonts.

I do not.

However, a second study performed on rainbow trout made discoveries about the efficacy on trophonts.

“ Similarly, doses of 2 and 5 mg L−1 bronopol administered as the first wave of mature I. multifiliis trophonts exited fish (i.e. day 11 onwards) to develop externally, reduced the number of trophonts establishing on fish as the second cycle of infection by 52–83%. Continuous application of 2 and 5 mg L−1 bronopol throughout the second and third cycles of I. multifiliis infection gave further reductions of between 90 and 98%. The number of trophonts on the fish in the control tanks and those treated with 1 mg L−1 and the 2 mg L−1 dose at the time of initial infection, by comparison, were observed to increase with successive cycles of infection.”

So it seems it’s more of a preventative measure for trophonts than an elimination method.

Here is the abstract:

Effects of long duration, low dose bronopol exposure on the control of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (Ciliophora), parasitising rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss Walbaum)

Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet, 1876 infections on intensively reared fish stocks can increase rapidly, which if left unmanaged, can result in t…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[living_tribunal]

Was able to find a full study on the subject here:

258 pages for you to sink your teeth into @Humblefish

https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/3032/1/Sara%20Picon%20Camacho%20PhD%20thesis.pdf

 

[living_tribunal]

The one problem is the efficacy in saltwater, or if it can even be used on saltwater. I have not seen one medication nor study utilizing/testing bronopol on marine livestock.

 

[Humblefish]

Was able to find a full study on the subject here:

258 pages for you to sink your teeth into @Humblefish

https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/3032/1/Sara%20Picon%20Camacho%20PhD%20thesis.pdf

Thank you! I'm also going to share this with a colleague of mine in the UK who loves reading full studies.

 

[Humblefish]

The one problem is the efficacy in saltwater, or if it can even be used on saltwater. I have not seen one medication nor study utilizing/testing bronopol on marine livestock.

Apparently bronopol is marketed as "Pyceze" in the UK:

A veterinary medicine alternative to malachite green called "Pyceze" has now been developed in the UK with the assistance of funding from the salmon and trout industries and DEFRA. The active ingredient of this new product, "bronopol," was permitted by the EU for use in the treatment of fish for the first time in 2002. The Veterinary Medicines Directorate has granted a provisional marketing authorisation for Pyceze and they are currently assessing the suitability of the product for full marketing authorisation. In the meantime Pyceze is available for the treatment of fish and their ova under veterinary prescription.

There have been some tests done using it to control harmful marine bacteria: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848605007076

And as an Easter egg, this species of freshwater catfish tolerated it better than MG: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e45f/2fd0f3382d8b640b65d37bf98f55bc98a3c6.pdf

 

[living_tribunal]

Apparently bronopol is marketed as "Pyceze" in the UK:


There have been some tests done using it to control harmful marine bacteria: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848605007076

And as an Easter egg, this species of freshwater catfish tolerated it better than MG: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e45f/2fd0f3382d8b640b65d37bf98f55bc98a3c6.pdf

Good find on the marine test.

Not sure how one would set up such a controlled testing environment full of ich at various life-stages with reliable measurement but it’s worth a shot imo.

Almost all of the experiments utilized in vitro and in vido application as well.

The only over the counter parisitic I could find containing bronopol was by Interpet, and is listed as only available for freshwater fish and in the UK:
What's interesting is the active ingredient make is 522mg of bronopol.

 

[Humblefish]

This confirms at least that bronopol can be used in a marine environment to treat fungal infections: https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ure-Fish-health-problems-in-marine-fishes.pdf

And from Noga:

BRONOPOL (2 - BROMO - 2 - NITROPROPANE - 1,3 - DIOL, PYCEZE TM [NOVARTIS ANIMAL
HEALTH])

Bronopol is a thiol-containing dehydrogenase enzyme inhibitor that is believed to cause cell membrane leakage. It was originally developed as a preservative for cosmetics, pharmaceuticals and industrial applications. In the relatively few fish species that have been studied (mainly salmonids), it has highly efficacious antioomycete activity, being similar to that of malachite green (Sudova et al. 2007). It is also safer to use on eggs than malachite green (larger and fewer abnormal fry). However, it should not be used in smolting Atlantic salmon or rainbow trout alevins.

The aquaculture brand Pyceze TM (50% [w/v] bronopol) is permitted by the European Union for treating water mold infections of salmonids and their ova under veterinary prescription. Pyceze TM contains 500 of mg bronopol per ml of inert carrier. It rapidly degrades, especially when exposed to high intensity ultraviolet light (e.g., UV sterilizers). It is approved in Norway, the Faroe Islands and Sweden. There is no withdrawal period.

Use No. 1 : Treatment of water mold infection on fish Water-borne formulations:
1. Bath
a. Add 1 ml Pyceze TM /25 liter (= 20 mg bronopol/l = 0.15 ml Pyceze TM /gallon), and treat for 30 minutes. Flow rates must be such that a complete exchange of the water is achieved in 60 minutes or less following the end of the treatment period. Repeat daily for up to 14 consecutive days.

This regimen has cured rainbow trout of water mold infection (Branson 2002 ; Bronopol Product Insert, Novartis).

Use No. 2 : Treatment of water mold infection on eggs
Water - borne formulations:
1. Bath
a. Add 0.1 ml Pyceze TM /liter (= 50 mg bronopol/liter = 0.38 ml Pyceze TM /gallon), and treat for 30 minutes daily, as necessary, beginning at 24 hours after fertilization (Bronopol Product Insert, Novartis). Flow rates to the incubator must be such that a complete exchange of the incubator water is achieved in 30 minutes or less following the end of the treatment period. If infected, repeat daily for 15 days.