Humic and Fulvic Acid

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Hey Randy,
In ULNS tanks would dosing Humic and Fulvic acid be beneficial? I'm assuming this is a larger portion of the DOC we skim out though. I just see that a lot of people are getting good responses from Amino Acids with ULNS. You have that as 1-3% of DOC in an article, and Humic Substances at 5-25%. Just curious.
 
Humic and fulvic acids collect largely because they are not easily metabolized. So I wouldn't pick them as a food for the tank.

While I don't dose amino acids, I think it can be a good idea for a ULNS aquarium. :)
 
Sounds good. I wasn't sure if the chelating properties of the two may be beneficial.
 
Although I'm sure the hardness of salt water would demise some of those properties. I know you don't dose amino ' s but have you ever thought about making a diy amino acid recipe? Thanks
 
No, I haven't thought of a recipe, but IMO, aspartic and glutamic acids might be most useful for corals.

I mention their use here:

Aquarium Chemistry: The Chemical and Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

from it:

The Role of Organics
Organic molecules are known to play a substantial role in the formation of calcium carbonate in many organisms, including abalone shells and other mollusk shells. These materials can be proteins, glycoproteins, mucopolysaccharides, and phospholipids (and likely others that have not yet been identified). They help to induce the nucleation and growth of aragonite and are often referred to as the "organic matrix" because much of skeleton of corals is comprised of these organic materials.

In the case of corals, we have relatively little information about exactly what these organic materials are doing. The structures of some of these proteins contain an unusually large number of aspartic acid residues. These amino acids are capable of binding to calcium, but whether that is a critical function or not has not been established. Here is some speculation about what these organics might be doing with respect to calcification:

1. They may help control the concentration of free calcium in the ECF, and thereby help control the rate of precipitation of CaCO3.
2. They may control the location of crystal growth by binding free calcium and ferrying it to the location where the coral wants precipitation to take place.
3. They may bind to the aragonite crystal face and thereby control the rate of precipitation.
4. They may bind to the aragonite crystal face and thereby prevent precipitation in places where the coral does not want the skeleton to grow.
5. They may bind to the aragonite crystal face and thereby inhibit binding of magnesium, phosphate, or other ions that are known to inhibit the growth of calcium carbonate crystals.


Regardless of the mechanisms involved, the need for these organics in calcification is easily verified. Allemand et al have studied the role of such materials in Stylophora pistillata. Interestingly, they find that inhibitors of protein synthesis reduce the rate of calcification considerably. For example, reducing protein synthesis by 60-85% reduced calcification by 50%. A similar result was found by inhibiting glycoprotein synthesis. These results did not come about because of reduced metabolism, but rather by specific effects of reduced protein and glycoprotein synthesis. The most important conclusion in their paper may be that the rate of skeletogenesis may be more limited by the rate of biosynthesis and exocytosis of organic matrix proteins rather than by calcium deposition.

Interestingly, the apparently large need for a particular amino acid (aspartic acid) to synthesize these proteins is satisfied by external sources, not by either the coral itself or the zooxanthellae. For this reason, it might be interesting to see what added aspartic acid does to calcification rates in reef tanks.
 
Sounds good. I wasn't sure if the chelating properties of the two may be beneficial.

They probably do solubilize and bind trace metals such as iron.
 
What about tin? Maybe the absence or abundance of these acids are contributing to the tin in some triton tests.
 
Funny that you mention that article. I read it not too long ago. I was looking up a source of aspartic acid a few days ago. I may try it. I've been looking at the amino's contained in some of the big names but it's hard to say what the percentage of each amino are in the bottle. I was interested in the fulvic and humic acids because I have a couple bottles of each and wondered if they would help anything.
 
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It's from a place that sells it for human consumption. Probably a broader range of humic substances. I knew people that were using it as a supplement and i was a skeptic but they convinced me to try it. I read a lot about the chelating properties of the two. A lot of people claim that we are missing the amounts of it from the way our foods are fertilized, pesticides used, and procsssed. Now I'm not an expert on that by any means. I tried it but couldn't get past the look of it. So I have a bottle that says humic and a lighter colored fulvic acid bottle. I was interested in claims of chelating properties and free radical scavenger.
 
It could very well be a bottle of dirt and water haha. You never know these days with scammers. They claim it's from New Mexico geologic deposits, in the Upper Cretaceous Fruitland Formation, in the San Juan Basin. Would have never looked at it if a friend hadn't pointed it out to me. I do a lot of vegetable gardening too and it was interesting but I'm not very sure about it.
 
It could very well be a bottle of dirt and water haha. You never know these days with scammers. They claim it's from New Mexico geologic deposits, in the Upper Cretaceous Fruitland Formation, in the San Juan Basin. Would have never looked at it if a friend hadn't pointed it out to me. I do a lot of vegetable gardening too and it was interesting but I'm not very sure about it.

Not something I'd personally want to eat. :D
 
Curious how did dosing humic acids go?
 
okay,,then the topic of Fulvic acid in the reef environment..
how does it interacts with coral growth and water quality ?

Well, if it complexes metals, it impacts their bioavailability. The could be to increase or decrease it.
 

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