HybridAZN's 180 gallon build

[.AcroKiller.]

Strange, anyone else ever have this issue?

@Terence has there ever been any issues with this happening?

This is the first time this happens to me.

 

[hybridazn]

So we are approaching the 30 day mark on the fish in the qt, I have been keeping the copper levels at 0.5 using cupramine and testing via the seachem copper test kit. The blue hippo and yellow tang still show signs of ice that come and go about once a week. Should I abandon the copper treatment and use TTM? Or should I keep going with copper? All the fish are tolerating the copaper fine and eating like pigs.

Any advice @Humblefish @melypr1985

 

[Brian Kim]

Some fresh pics of the sump area since @TaylorPilot diy baffle kit thread is seeing extra attention lately. I still have a couple wires to put away but all in all I think it's holding up pretty well since I installed the new sump a couple months ago. What you think @mdbannister ? No salt creep

Next up is making/buying a custom ato container to replace the 20xh. A 20L is 1/2" too wide to fit between the stand and wall so that's out so I will get one or make one to fit the area I need and keep a low profile that you can't see it from the front. It's an eye sore to me now lol

Kawasaki Ninja style sump, love it!

 

[melypr1985]

So we are approaching the 30 day mark on the fish in the qt, I have been keeping the copper levels at 0.5 using cupramine and testing via the seachem copper test kit. The blue hippo and yellow tang still show signs of ice that come and go about once a week. Should I abandon the copper treatment and use TTM? Or should I keep going with copper? All the fish are tolerating the copaper fine and eating like pigs.

Any advice @Humblefish @melypr1985

Can you be positive that the levels haven't dropped? I wonder sometimes, how you fellas can read these test kits since it seems that at least half of you are at least partially color blind. I ask because the way this actually works is the ick falls off the fish to continue it's life cycle and when it breaks free of it's cyst to attach to the fish again it gets zapped by the copper.
If your fish are being reinfected then the copper isn't working for whatever reason. Could be that the copper itself or the test kit are off just enough.... could just be it's not working on this strain (we have seen a few cases where cupramine was used properly and ick still persisted after). Now if it's the last, then you can switch to a chelated copper like coppersafe or switch to TTM. Personally I like TTM best, though I realize it's not the easiest way to do it when you need double the equipment and the time to do it.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ I would switch over to TTM if copper isn't fixing the problem. Just be sure your fish have ich and not velvet. Do you have photos of them showing the white spots?

 

[hybridazn]

Kawasaki Ninja style sump, love it!

Haha thanks!

Can you be positive that the levels haven't dropped? I wonder sometimes, how you fellas can read these test kits since it seems that at least half of you are at least partially color blind. I ask because the way this actually works is the ick falls off the fish to continue it's life cycle and when it breaks free of it's cyst to attach to the fish again it gets zapped by the copper.
If your fish are being reinfected then the copper isn't working for whatever reason. Could be that the copper itself or the test kit are off just enough.... could just be it's not working on this strain (we have seen a few cases where cupramine was used properly and ick still persisted after). Now if it's the last, then you can switch to a chelated copper like coppersafe or switch to TTM. Personally I like TTM best, though I realize it's not the easiest way to do it when you need double the equipment and the time to do it.

After the first couple weeks I noticed that the levels did drop a bit, but after that I have ever been testing every 3-4 days and it's been pretty consistent since. I was also thinking that maybe my test kit is getting old so I will grab a new one and test with that and see, it definitely possible I'm getting a false reading.

^^ I would switch over to TTM if copper isn't fixing the problem. Just be sure your fish have ich and not velvet. Do you have photos of them showing the white spots?

I'm thinking I might stuck with copper for another week or so before I switch it up to TTM, I'm sure my wife will love another tank in the tank room lol.

I'm 99% sure it's not velvet, it doesn't have the characteristics of velvet that I have seen. The spots are few and far between and only the blue hippo and yellow tang are showing signs. The others (sailfin tang, melunarus wrasse, starry blenny, pair of black ice clowns) show no signs.

They don't appear to be stressing over it at all except the yellow, his color has faded a bit but still eats like crazy.

I'll try to get some pics up tonight when I get home from work. It'll be late though.

Thanks for the help you 2!

 

[hybridazn]

@Humblefish @melypr1985

Here are a couple pics I snapped really quick tonight. Sorry about the quality, its late and I'm kind of tired lol. As you can see (esp on the blue hippo) ich is there along with hlle (comes and goes with ich, strange I know). The yellow tang is harder to see because of the blotchiness of his color(lights were off when I got home, I forgot to tell the wife to turn the lights on earlier today)

The ich outbreaks seem to never get worse than what is pictured, just a few spots here and there. It seems to happen every 3-4 days, then be good for a few days and back again(obviously the life cycle)

Thanks again!

 

[Humblefish]

The ich outbreaks seem to never get worse than what is pictured, just a few spots here and there. It seems to happen every 3-4 days, then be good for a few days and back again(obviously the life cycle)

The dots on the Hippo Tang does appear to be ich. If they are showing up every few days, that means the theronts are getting through the copper and latching onto the fish.

You're gonna have to remind me again (it's late)... What brand of copper are you using, which test kit do you have, and what Cu level are you maintaining?

I'll check your thread again in the morning.

 

[hybridazn]

The dots on the Hippo Tang does appear to be ich. If they are showing up every few days, that means the theronts are getting through the copper and latching onto the fish.

You're gonna have to remind me again (it's late)... What brand of copper are you using, which test kit do you have, and what Cu level are you maintaining?

I'll check your thread again in the morning.

Thanks haha!

Cupramine, seachem copper test kit, 0.5cu

And tonight I noticed the one clownfish swimming at the surface of the tank and breathing somewhat rapidly. No visible signs but those are usually tell tale signs of gill infestation

All other fish ate normally except the one clown.

 

[melypr1985]

Thanks haha!

Cupramine, seachem copper test kit, 0.5cu

And tonight I noticed the one clownfish swimming at the surface of the tank and breathing somewhat rapidly. No visible signs but those are usually tell tale signs of gill infestation

All other fish ate normally except the one clown.

It doesn't appear that the copper is working for you. It could be keeping the population in check (killing most but not all) for you but that's not good enough in QT. I'll recommend you switch to TTM or at a minimum switch copper brands (I like coppersafe and use it constantly at the store). You can't do CP because of the hippo so that takes away one of your choices.

 

[Humblefish]

It doesn't appear that the copper is working for you. It could be keeping the population in check (killing most but not all) for you but that's not good enough in QT. I'll recommend you switch to TTM or at a minimum switch copper brands (I like coppersafe and use it constantly at the store). You can't do CP because of the hippo so that takes away one of your choices.

^^This. I've read anecdotal accounts of "copper resistant parasites" but have never encountered such myself. However, I believe @4FordFamily has and I trust his judgement.

My recommendation is to switch to TTM; or at the very least try a chelated copper product (Coppersafe) instead.

 

[4FordFamily]

^^This. I've read anecdotal accounts of "copper resistant parasites" but have never encountered such myself. However, I believe @4FordFamily has and I trust his judgement.

My recommendation is to switch to TTM; or at the very least try a chelated copper product (Coppersafe) instead.

Yes and many times (same strain that never completely went away despite obvious symptoms dissipating). Coppersafe did eventually end it (I used cupramine prior), and then I cross contaminated with my water change hose with my ich management tank two months later... Grrrr but confirm coppersafe did eradicate it where cupramine didn't even at 2x the recommended therapeutic dose.

 

[hybridazn]

It doesn't appear that the copper is working for you. It could be keeping the population in check (killing most but not all) for you but that's not good enough in QT. I'll recommend you switch to TTM or at a minimum switch copper brands (I like coppersafe and use it constantly at the store). You can't do CP because of the hippo so that takes away one of your choices.

^^This. I've read anecdotal accounts of "copper resistant parasites" but have never encountered such myself. However, I believe @4FordFamily has and I trust his judgement.

My recommendation is to switch to TTM; or at the very least try a chelated copper product (Coppersafe) instead.

Thanks for the replies and assistance!

Yes and many times (same strain that never completely went away despite obvious symptoms dissipating). Coppersafe did eventually end it (I used cupramine prior), and then I cross contaminated with my water change hose with my ich management tank two months later... Grrrr but confirm coppersafe did eradicate it where cupramine didn't even at 2x the recommended therapeutic dose.

That's what I'm seeing as well, I tested copper last night and it checked in at 0.8 (I dosed again the other night) and still nothing. I am going to use coppersafe for a few weeks to see if does anything. If not I will implement TTM.

Thanks for all the help guys and gal!

 

[hybridazn]

The poor little clownfish hasn't eaten in 2 days that I've seen and has been hovering at the surface of the water for just as long. Breathing is has been a little faster than normal so I decided to do a fresh water dip to see if it helps.

Here she is in the FW dip

She spent 5 minutes in the FW dip and back into the qt she went. She seems to be swimming around more but I think it's too early to tell yet.

In the last picture do her eyes appear to be a bulging a bit?

Sorry for the crummy cell pics, didn't feel like busting out the dslr.

 

[melypr1985]

In the last picture do her eyes appear to be a bulging a bit?

The left eye does a little and it appears to be a little cloudy in the second picture as well. Have you noticed that as well, or is it a trick of the picture? Did anything come out of the clown during this dip?

For the eye, you could just continue with vitamins in the food and save treatment for if it doesn't heal up on its own. In that case, kanaplex absorbs into the skin pretty well and would be done in QT. You can feed it to them but that's slower- a lot slower from my experience.

 

[hybridazn]

The left eye does a little and it appears to be a little cloudy in the second picture as well. Have you noticed that as well, or is it a trick of the picture? Did anything come out of the clown during this dip?

For the eye, you could just continue with vitamins in the food and save treatment for if it doesn't heal up on its own. In that case, kanaplex absorbs into the skin pretty well and would be done in QT. You can feed it to them but that's slower- a lot slower from my experience.

I did notice that too, I didn't notice anything fall off the fish during the dip. I feed TLF sea veggies and also LRS reef frenzy, but like I said she hasn't eaten in a couple days. I'm not going to worry too much about that unless it continues for closer to a week.

My coppersafe will be here Monday so I can start that then and hopefully rid these guys of ich. I can then start the other treatments

 

[acer]

Still following you thread dude - wow ... So hard to get healthy non diseased fish now a days.

I have to ask- I really like the "plate" that Taylor made for your 3 x 4 inch socks. He is going to look into making me just the plate that will hold 2 x 7 inch socks for my 40 breeder sump. I have just read the 7 inch socks really work better than the 4 inch socks. Also - have found on E-bay someone selling 7 inch "shorty" socks that are only 8 inches long - which really works well for my sump which is only 12 inches deep.

 

[hybridazn]

Still following you thread dude - wow ... So hard to get healthy non diseased fish now a days.

I have to ask- I really like the "plate" that Taylor made for your 3 x 4 inch socks. He is going to look into making me just the plate that will hold 2 x 7 inch socks for my 40 breeder sump. I have just read the 7 inch socks really work better than the 4 inch socks. Also - have found on E-bay someone selling 7 inch "shorty" socks that are only 8 inches long - which really works well for my sump which is only 12 inches deep.

Hey Ted! Long time no see haha

Yea fish stink, if it were up to me I would just have corals but because my wife loves fish I have to keep them as well, sigh. Plus my daughter has joined her team and loves the fish too, so now I get it from both to keep fish haha.

I'm glad to see your build going on, but I wish you would post it here on r2r instead

You could just do a thread on both @acer

 

[acer]

OK yes-I had thought about doing build threads on both sites. Really not that much work.

 

[hybridazn]

OK yes-I had thought about doing build threads on both sites. Really not that much work.

That's what I like to hear