Hydrochloric acid for cleaning

anth · Jul 28, 2020

Hi everyone
I am looking into a product for cleaning powerheads and am wanting some advice on wether it is safe or not.
The product is a brick and mortar cleaner containing hydrochloric acid and some alcohols.

Here is a link to the safety data sheet

https://wickes.scene7.com/is/content/travisperkins/Cement-Additives-Sealants-Wickes-Brick-Mortar-Cleaner-5L~E6912_153779_COSHH_0

any help is greatly appreciated
Thanks
Anth

Idaho Lone Wolf · Jul 28, 2020

IMO - Hydrochloric acid is really strong stuff and may cause damage to your equipment. I have found that white vinegar works very nicely. Make a strong solution of vinegar and water and soak the item you want cleaned for a couple of hours. If the build up is heavy on the powerbeads, use the vinegar straight.

DaddyFish · Jul 28, 2020

Muriatic Acid is another alternative. I agree that Hydrochloric Acid is just too harsh for many materials.

GlassMunky · Jul 28, 2020

DaddyFish said:
Muriatic Acid is another alternative. I agree that Hydrochloric Acid is just too harsh for many materials.

Muriatic acid IS hydrochloric acid just with a different name.

Idaho Lone Wolf said:
IMO - Hydrochloric acid is really strong stuff and may cause damage to your equipment. I have found that white vinegar works very nicely. Make a strong solution of vinegar and water and soak the item you want cleaned for a couple of hours. If the build up is heavy on the powerbeads, use the vinegar straight.

Vinegar is known to gradually eat away at plastic and can cause your power heads to wear down and break prematurely.

Citrix acid is what most people on this forum use as it’s safe and effective.
Hydrochloride also works, just be safe and use precautions like gloves, glasses etc.

Jen1978 · Jul 28, 2020

Citric Acid from BRS is what I use.

WVNed · Jul 28, 2020

Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid. Same stuff.

It should not contain the other stuff you don't want. It can be had at Home depot here and I think it is sold to correct the ph of swimming pools at pool supply stores.

Use gloves

Citric acid also works. I just used it for the first time and it did well. It is a food additive.

GlassMunky · Jul 28, 2020

WVNed said:
Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid. Same stuff.

It should not contain the other stuff you don't want. It can be had at Home depot here and I think it is sold to correct the ph of swimming pools at pool supply stores.

Use gloves

Citric acid also works. I just used it for the first time and it did well. It is a food additive.

Yes I get my hydrochloric acid from the pool supply store. A gallon is less than $15 and will last forever (unless you are acid washing rocks)

anth · Jul 28, 2020

GlassMunky said:
Muriatic acid IS hydrochloric acid just with a different name.

Vinegar is known to gradually eat away at plastic and can cause your power heads to wear down and break prematurely.

Citrix acid is what most people on this forum use as it’s safe and effective.
Hydrochloride also works, just be safe and use precautions like gloves, glasses etc.

Thanks for all the replies
Muriatic acid was what i was looking for but as you say it is the same thing.
I am aware of the vinegar problem and have thought of using citric acid but dont want to leave my tank for a long period of time without the powerhead.
How long do you let yours soak?

PatW · Jul 28, 2020

I use muriatic acid for cleaning. I use a 5% solution for cleaning. I mix it outside. Also add acid to water and not vice versa. I use RODI water to dilute with.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 28, 2020

DaddyFish said:
Muriatic Acid is another alternative. I agree that Hydrochloric Acid is just too harsh for many materials.

Those two are identical chemicals.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 28, 2020

WVNed said:
Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid. Same stuff.

It should not contain the other stuff you don't want. It can be had at Home depot here and I think it is sold to correct the ph of swimming pools at pool supply stores.

Use gloves

Citric acid also works. I just used it for the first time and it did well. It is a food additive.

It is not diluted hydrochloric acid. Those two names are synonyms, and neither name says anything about concentration.

DaddyFish · Jul 28, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Those two are identical chemicals.

True, well almost. Muriatic acid is a less refined form of hydrochloric, but typically not packaged nearly as strong as hydrochloric. If hydrochloric is indeed used, remember the old "A(cid) to W(ater), never W to A" acid dilution rule.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 28, 2020

DaddyFish said:
True, well almost. Muriatic acid is a less refined form of hydrochloric, but typically not packaged nearly as strong as hydrochloric. If hydrochloric is indeed used, remember the old "A(cid) to W(ater), never W to A" acid dilution rule.

They are synonyms. Nothing more or less.

Both can be very strong (low 30's% HCl by weight) and both can be weak. I can buy hydrochloric acid that is far, far weaker than vinegar.

It turns out that most hydrochloric acid sold to consumers is sold under the name muriatic acid, while chemists and other scientists use the term hydrochloric. Not sure why marketers thing consumers like the muriatic acid name better.

There has been a recent trend to sell "green" muriatic acid that is diluted and fumes less since most hardware store uses can take the dilution. But you can still buy full strength muriatic acid from places like Ace Hardware.

WVNed · Jul 28, 2020

HCL is hydrochloric acid. Muriatic acid is some dilution of HCL in water. That is the way I have heard it used. Sorry if it is wrong.

anth · Jul 29, 2020

Whilst i have been researching the product in question i have found very conflicting information on the difference or lack of difference between hydrochloric and muriatic acid. This doesn’t really matter (for my use anyway) though as both are suitable for the intended task.
The product in question is a mixed hydrochloric solution with alcohols and such and i cannot verify wether or not all the content is reef safe. Im in the uk and the only way (i can find) to get hydrochloric or muriatic acid is to purchase it as a brick and mortar cleaner. Because of the uncertainty of the contents i have decided to just use citric acid as i can get this in food grade.
Whilst everyone has is here, would you mind sharing your mixture for citric acid powder and method for use of cleaning?

Thanks
Anth

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 29, 2020

WVNed said:
HCL is hydrochloric acid. Muriatic acid is some dilution of HCL in water. That is the way I have heard it used. Sorry if it is wrong.

It is definitely wrong. I suggest not repeating incorrect info.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 29, 2020

anth said:
Whilst i have been researching the product in question i have found very conflicting information on the difference or lack of difference between hydrochloric and muriatic acid.

Thanks
Anth

Once again: there is no difference between muriatic acid and hydrochloric acid.

It is not a dilution difference, it is not a purity difference. Those are just different terms used by different people, with muriatic acid used more often to market to consumers and hydrochloric acid used by scientists.

Here's a food grade concentrated hydrochloric acid product from a scientific supply company that specifically says muriatic acid is a synonym:

Hydrochloric Acid - 37% FCC - Columbus Chemical Industries

Hydrochloric Acid is commonly used in the food industry for applications such as pH adjustment and hydrolyzation (breaking down) of...

www.columbuschemical.com

"Hydrochloric Acid – 37% FCC
Synonyms: HCL, Muriatic Acid, Hydrogen Chloride Solution"

anth · Jul 29, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Once again: there is no difference between muriatic acid and hydrochloric acid.

It is not a dilution difference, it is not a purity difference. Those are just different terms used by different people, with muriatic acid used more often to market to consumers and hydrochloric acid used by scientists.

Here's a food grade concentrated hydrochloric acid product from a scientific supply company that specifically says muriatic acid is a synonym:

Hydrochloric Acid - 37% FCC - Columbus Chemical Industries

Hydrochloric Acid is commonly used in the food industry for applications such as pH adjustment and hydrolyzation (breaking down) of...

www.columbuschemical.com

"Hydrochloric Acid – 37% FCC
Synonyms: HCL, Muriatic Acid, Hydrogen Chloride Solution"

Thanks for clearing that up.
My original concern was not with the actual acid itself, but the product i was looking into as it is labeled as a mixture.
Maybe you could take a look and tell me if it is reef safe for cleaning powerheads in a bucket (obviously im not pouring it into my tank)

.

https://wickes.scene7.com/is/content/travisperkins/Cement-Additives-Sealants-Wickes-Brick-Mortar-Cleaner-5L~E6912_153779_COSHH_0

thanks
Anth

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 29, 2020

The ethoxylated alcohols are a surfactant ( like a soap or detergent). It likely carries the same concerns as a soap: not a problem at very low levels, but could be a concern with substantial amounts. Cleaning something with it seems like a low risk to the tank if it is rinsed well in clean water.

This shows the organic structure: