Hydros Control Board Show Off!

[n2585722]

I too prefer the ears designed in the case of the initial Apex module (like current Hydros) vs the new mount but we were talking about the non-uniformity of the Hydros modules dimensions in general.

I have 5 different size cases in my 15 controllers. It would not make since to only have one size when the smaller controller do not need the larger cases. Not to mention the larger the case the more it would cost and the more room it would take on the board. My boards are made to be able to mount different controllers in the different locations. In fact the garage control board is drilled so you can also mount Digital aquatics modules along with Hydros devices. Each location can mount either 3 of the small controllers or one of the larger controllers. I have the pumps in the garage in a different spot on the controller board and I will have to make a different plate for the Minnow or Sole which look to be the same size one has the pump mounted in front and the other has them one on each side. This photo is back when there were still some Digital Aquatics modules mounted. At this time there are just 4 Hydros controllers out there. 2 X2, 1 XS and 1 X4.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I like stackable, common and well thought out form factor with all wires heading pretty much in the same direction... like stereo separates, servers and switches, pro sound, relay racks, DIN equipment, TELCO boards, and anything else where actual form factor is considered above "Wow that would be cool".

I truly think that fact that these folks don't think that deeply is an indicator of the bigger picture about their product design choices and engineering, not to mention that they didn't bother consulting a marketing and design expert.

The same goes for the naming conventions. They just draw name out of a hat... heck, there isn't even a theme, just random names with cryptic or nuanced meaning. It is silly and part of the reason I took one look at their site when deciding on a controller and clicked away. It is pages of nothing but artsy fluff. Very poor marketing.

I am waiting on the "Maven" to release, as I have hopes it will be a quality product, but at this point would be stand alone for me.

 

[Jamie814]

Absolutely ridiculous form factor. It is as bad or worse than Neptune. I can’t fathom who comes up with this nonsense, let alone decides to bring it to market. Everything is a different size and thickness, connectors going in random directions, etc.

I do kind of agree. I wish they would put all the plugs/hookups on the back side with a standoff type of raised mount for the modules so that you could hide all the connections out the back of a mounting board OR bring them down and out any side of the module should you need to.

The way Hydros is designed it will look like a mess no matter how you try to organize it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have 5 different size cases in my 15 controllers. It would not make since to only have one size when the smaller controller do not need the larger cases.

Different sizes are fine as long as they fit some type of modular form factor. These things are random with wires going in all directions. It is poorly thought out.

Not to mention the larger the case the more it would cost and the more room it would take on the board.

Cost is negligible at the volume and margin these will ever sell at. If it were 100,000,000 at a ultra low competitive margin, then every penny counts.

In any case, not attacking you for buying these products or liking them. Just offering my thoughts.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I like stackable, common and well thought out form factor with all wires heading pretty much in the same direction... like stereo separates, servers and switches, pro sound, relay racks, DIN equipment, TELCO boards, and anything else where actual form factor is considered above "Wow that would be cool".

We don't always see eye to eye....but I couldn't find better analogy or agree more.

 

[n2585722]

I do kind of agree. I wish they would put all the plugs/hookups on the back side with a standoff type of raised mount for the modules so that you could hide all the connections out the back of a mounting board OR bring them down and out any side of the module should you need to.

The way Hydros is designed it will look like a mess no matter how you try to organize it.

The cases are off the shelf cases that have a IP65 rating so that is the main reason for the case type they use. Also since the PC board and all connectors are mounted to the front it does make it easier to access those by just removing the top of the case. Also there is a SD card inside so that makes it easy to change that if you ever need to. There is also a way to reset the controller with a magnet which is done from the top. They went with that method due to the IP65 rating but that is another reason for having the PC board near the top.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The cases are off the shelf cases that have a IP65 rating so that is the main reason for the case type they use. Also since the PC board and all connectors are mounted to the front it does make it easier to access those by just removing the top of the case. Also there is a SD card inside so that makes it easy to change that if you ever need to. There is also a way to reset the controller with a magnet which is done from the top. They went with that method due to the IP65 rating but that is another reason for having the PC board near the top.

One could argue that those are all cost cutting (margin increasing) compromises that were more important than form factor.

One way or the other, I don't find it functionally appealing or space friendly. Other people may not care.

 

[n2585722]

Different sizes are fine as long as they fit some type of modular form factor. These things are random with wires going in all directions. It is poorly thought out.

The only ones I have that don't have all connections on the face of the controller are the ones with power cords and those go in on the bottom side of the case. The XP8, Launch and Kraken are the only controllers with wires attached. All other connections are GX12 connectors on the face of the controllers. The ones with dosing pumps have them mounted on the sides with the exception of the Sole and it is mounted in the top but it only has the single pump and 2 drive ports and a power port.

 

[BeanAnimal]

LoL - that's a lot of "exceptions"

 

[drolmaeye]

I like stackable, common and well thought out form factor with all wires heading pretty much in the same direction... like stereo separates, servers and switches, pro sound, relay racks, DIN equipment, TELCO boards, and anything else where actual form factor is considered above "Wow that would be cool".

I truly think that fact that these folks don't think that deeply is an indicator of the bigger picture about their product design choices and engineering, not to mention that they didn't bother consulting a marketing and design expert.

The same goes for the naming conventions. They just draw name out of a hat... heck, there isn't even a theme, just random names with cryptic or nuanced meaning. It is silly and part of the reason I took one look at their site when deciding on a controller and clicked away. It is pages of nothing but artsy fluff. Very poor marketing.

I am waiting on the "Maven" to release, as I have hopes it will be a quality product, but at this point would be stand alone for me.

Which control system (if any) did you ultimately settle on? And do you have any pics which highlight the organization and design?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I use GHL. I do mostly like the form factor. I have some issues with the product and company, but not within the scope of this conversation.

I did not purchase Neptune partly because of the service record and partly because of the Bertram relationship, as well as the horrid reviews for Mobius and the way I watched Radion's UI not evolve. The form factor choices in context to the other issues speaks volumes IMHO.

I fully skipped Hydros partly due to the form factor, but mostly because the website and marketing information is atrocious at conveying what the product actually is and does, what is needed, or differentiating between the modules. The naming of everything is silly and I could not quickly sort out what was needed or were device functions overlap or are unique. There was also no demo or other software insight or info. Lastly, I avoided the product due to my perception of CoralVue support (well founded or not).

There are photos of my setup around here somewhere. If I get a chance I will upload some but don't have any handy.

 

[n2585722]

I do kind of agree. I wish they would put all the plugs/hookups on the back side with a standoff type of raised mount for the modules so that you could hide all the connections out the back of a mounting board OR bring them down and out any side of the module should you need to.

The way Hydros is designed it will look like a mess no matter how you try to organize it.

I guess it is the electronics technician in me but I would rather have all the connectors up front where they are easy to get to and unhook without going to a lot of trouble. Yes having them in back would hide the connectors but make it harder to get to them. You could alway mount them in a cabinet and close the door unless you need to get to them to change things. Just make sure there is some kind of ventilation.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I guess it is the electronics technician in me but I would rather have all the connectors up front where they are easy to get to and unhook without going to a lot of trouble. Yes having them in back would hide the connectors but make it harder to get to them. You could alway mount them in a cabinet and close the door unless you need to get to them to change things. Just make sure there is some kind of ventilation.

and for a second I thought you were a switch board operator.

 

[n2585722]

and for a second I thought you were a switch board operator.

Before I retired this is the linear accelerator part of one of the tools I used to work on.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Interesting. Are those cylinders vacuum RF cavities?

 

[n2585722]

Interesting. Are those cylinders vacuum RF cavities?

Yes it is a high energy implanter. The extraction voltage only goes up to 100 kv so they use RF energy to accelerate the beam from there. Each antenna on one of the RF canisters can add up to 80 kv of acceleration. The regular high energy implanter has 10 of those the VHE version has 14. An ion can only exist for any length of time in a vacuum. So the area the beam is in is under vacuum. At the source and beamline on this one the use molecular turbo pumps but the chambers near where the wafers would be use cryopumps for maintaining the vacuum. They were fun to work on. I did it for 31 years.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Getting way off topic here... but why two different pumps topologies? From the very little I know about modern chip fab and doping... I assume the cryopumps are cleaner but require far more care and maintenance and are not "volume" pumps so are used at the more critical section only... and the turbos are higher "volume" and better in the early stages where there may be more outgas and contamination is less of an issue?

is this small semiconductor or full scale wafers like large CPU? Fascinating either way!

 

[n2585722]

Getting way off topic here... but why two different pumps topologies? From the very little I know about modern chip fab and doping... I assume the cryopumps are cleaner but require far more care and maintenance and are not "volume" pumps so are used at the more critical section only... and the turbos are higher "volume" and better in the early stages where there may be more outgas and contamination is less of an issue?

is this small semiconductor or full scale wafers like large CPU? Fascinating either way!

It started out as Motorola until it was spun off as Freescale. Freescale was eventually bought out by NXP which is the one I retired from. It was their largest semiconductor factory when I retired we had 28 implanters. Yes the cryopumps are used closer to the wafers and can pump down lower. The turbos are used at the source which is the dirtiest part where the ions are created and extracted. They then go through a analyzer magnet that separates out unwanted species using the magnetic field. The weight of the atom and acceleration with a given energy only a certain atomic weight will go through the slit lighter atoms will bend too much and the heavier ones will not bend enough. On the high energy implanter it goes through all those RF section to accelerate the beam to the amount wanted but doing that it create various energies in the beam so it goes through another magnet set to a certain magnetic field but in the case only the unwanted energies are filtered out. If I remember correctly the electromagnets weighed a lot. They were very large. Once the unwanted energy was filtered out and the beam block was retracted the beam would hit a disc full of wafers that was spinning at if I remember correctly about 2400 RPM. The entire disc would scan up and down during the implant. The disc could also be moved at different angles. It just depends on what the recipe called for for that particular implant. Most of our implants were arsenic, phosphorus, boron, antimony, indium or gallium arsenide. There were some others but they were not as common. One of the guys I used to work with when someone asked what he did would tell that he worked on a tool that would shoot rat poison into glass using bolts of lightning. He said that would pretty much end that conversation.

 

[rtparty]

Absolutely ridiculous form factor. It is as bad or worse than Neptune. I can’t fathom who comes up with this nonsense, let alone decides to bring it to market. Everything is a different size and thickness, connectors going in random directions, etc.

Only so much you can do when an Amazon project box is your starting point. No molds. No design thoughts. Totally at the mercy of whatever you can find pre made and then adapt.

However, the Hydros BNC connectors are leagues ahead of Neptune’s usb cables that rust and easily pull out. Talk about absolutely zero forethought.

GHL’s stacking “feature” is all great until the doser leaks and fries anything below. Neptune DOS has the same design flaw. Neptune marketed their “design” so you could stack them and then never implemented any type of water resistance

Every controller has serious flaws these days and it’s like none of the companies actually listen or care that these flaws are there and easily remedied.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Before I retired this is the linear accelerator part of one of the tools I used to work on.

I've always enjoyed things that are more organized, even if a bit harder to service.

This honestly looks like rats nest.