Hydros MACNA Announcement?

[n2585722]

These announcements were certainly interesting. Additionally, he said there is more in the pipeline that they can’t talk about, yet. If Kraken was in dev for three years and being tested, this means they have a lot of stuff baking. Can’t wait to see. In the meantime, I need to learn more about their ecosystem and start planning a migration if Neptune does rise up to compete/innovate.

I have information on some of the things I am doing with my Hydros system. It starts on page 7 in my build thread. Just click on my build thread contributor banner to go to my build thread.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

That did look interesting, but with thr iV, a spare pH port and 3 dosing pumps you can get a alkalinity reading with all Hydros stuff if you want.

Lol I can't tell if that's a joke, I listened to Carlos explain it he definitely emphasized needing a quality dosing pump also it seems very involved over a dedicated kh testing unit.

 

[n2585722]

Lol I can't tell if that's a joke, I listened to Carlos explain it he definitely emphasized needing a quality dosing pump also it seems very involved over a dedicated kh testing unit.

When he mentioned precision dosing pumps that would be like a BRS 1.1.Kamoer is also coming out with one like the BRS 1.1. The third can be one like the Hydros dosing pump. The drain pump does not need the precision that the fill and the reagent pump will need at low flow rates. Also the pumps in the X10 can be used for those. The X10 happens to have a salinity and a pH port which are needed with the iV if you are going to measure salinity.I think they are hoping to get you to purchase both to do this with but allow you to do the pH and alkalinity without it.

 

[Tamberav]

It seemed to make sense to me but I can see how it is confusing.

You need the IV + 3 dosing pumps + a controller with pH port.

It makes sense since if someone has a say Control 4 already... they could get a IV + dosers instead of buying an X10.

An X10 probably makes sense if you are new to the hydros system but you could technically probably build your own package with a simpler hydros controller + IV and your own dosers for cheaper if you just want the cheapest route.

Since for draining it you don't need a precision pump, amazon has peristaltic liquid pumps for $10.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Wonder why they went with lead acid battery support on the Kraken rather than LiFePO4?

Apparently lead acid and Li-ion batteries require different chargers. They integrated a charger for lead acid because they are cheaper and more readily available at local stores. If you want to use a Li-ion battery, you can but you have to pull a jumper to disengage the charger. Then you can charge it with your own charger.

 

[Jon's Reef]

If you are trying to run it from the Kraken and get rid of the power brick wouldn't the 24v output into where the normal power pack for the MP40 goes where you would want to plug into? If I remember correctly those are 24v power packs. I have the EcoTech battery backup for my MP10's and when running on it the MP10's will be in low power mode at the preset slower speed.

I asked if there were plans to offer step up adapters for 32V and 36V. They said it was one of the ideas.

One thing to remember is that it is not a battery backup. The Kraken is a primary power source. It provides the full DC power for items plugged into it. If there is a power outage, it will revert to the battery, but it will not necessarily change those items to the "low power" mode. They have some settings in Hydros where you can turn off certain devices if the power goes out. In the demo tank they had it so if the power was unplugged the skimmer and light turned off while the pumps stayed on.

It will be interesting to see how the Vortechs work as they actually have a second plug on the controller for "battery backup" mode.

 

[n2585722]

I asked if there were plans to offer step up adapters for 32V and 36V. They said it was one of the ideas.

One thing to remember is that it is not a battery backup. The Kraken is a primary power source. It provides the full DC power for items plugged into it. If there is a power outage, it will revert to the battery, but it will not necessarily change those items to the "low power" mode. They have some settings in Hydros where you can turn off certain devices if the power goes out. In the demo tank they had it so if the power was unplugged the skimmer and light turned off while the pumps stayed on.

It will be interesting to see how the Vortechs work as they actually have a second plug on the controller for "battery backup" mode.

I have MP10's and also the EcoTech battery backup. My WEv2 also has a battery backup. The only thing that will continue to run other the power to the controllers is the MP10's. I did not have the WEv2 when we had our rolling blackout a year and a half ago in February. They lasted almost a week. Sometime the power was off for a little more that 4 hours at a time. The on time and off time matched so basically we had power 50% of the time for a week. The MP10's never stopped running the entire time. The tank did get down to a little less than 70 degrees but I did not loose anything and it took it a couple of days to get back up to temp once the power stayed on. I have not lost power that long since I got the WEv2. I think it has only been off for about an hour but the MP10's ran that whole time.

 

[Jon's Reef]

A few questions that I had which did not get answered were:

Are the X10 pumps rated for continuous dosing? If not, what is the maximum number of dosing points during the day.

For using "other dosing pumps", is the time resolution of turning an XP8 outlet on/off sufficient to achieve the precision for the alkalinity testing? Both in filling the sample and dosing the reagent. Also concerned that rapid switching of an XP8 connected doser during the titration could lead to premature failure of the outlet.

 

[n2585722]

A few questions that I had which did not get answered were:

Are the X10 pumps rated for continuous dosing? If not, what is the maximum number of dosing points during the day.

For using "other dosing pumps", is the time resolution of turning an XP8 outlet on/off sufficient to achieve the precision for the alkalinity testing? Both in filling the sample and dosing the reagent. Also concerned that rapid switching of an XP8 connected doser during the titration could lead to premature failure of the outlet.

Not sure on whether the pump can be run continuously. But if you are using a low flow pump such as a BRS 1.1 that had a 1.1ml per minute I would think the XP8 would be Ok. They did say the 43ml Hydros dosing pump would not work for two of the pumps if you are doing alkalinity. If you are doing salinity and pH only then they would probably be ok since the amount of water does not matter as long as the probe is submerged when the test is run. It is the alkalinity where you would need the precision from the pumps.

 

[Spieg]

Apparently lead acid and Li-ion batteries require different chargers. They integrated a charger for lead acid because they are cheaper and more readily available at local stores. If you want to use a Li-ion battery, you can but you have to pull a jumper to disengage the charger. Then you can charge it with your own charger.

Not cheaper long term. You can cylce Lithium 3000-5000 times (usually more 10,000 times) before they wear out lead acid will die long before that.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Not cheaper long term. You can cylce Lithium 3000-5000 times (usually more 10,000 times) before they wear out lead acid will die long before that.

I agree. Just what I heard at the show.

 

[n2585722]

Not cheaper long term. You can cylce Lithium 3000-5000 times (usually more 10,000 times) before they wear out lead acid will die long before that.

I just changed my backup battery in my EcoTech battery backup and it was 6 years old. My car batteries last over 5 years regularly. I have had a hard time getting the lithium batteries to last longer than three years.

 

[ingchr1]

Not cheaper long term. You can cylce Lithium 3000-5000 times (usually more 10,000 times) before they wear out lead acid will die long before that.

On average, how many power outages does a residential home have a year that would be of a long enough duration to completely drain (cycle) the battery?

My guess, is that someone is not going to have thier lead acid battery backup fail on them from too many cycles.

 

[JeffB418]

Here is a good summary for those who missed the announcement:

Coming in 2023: 4 new huge products


XK Kraken! Your tanks ultimate DC power station. Time to ditch those bricks and run all your 12/24V DC products off the Kraken. Think of it as a DC version of the XP8, 8 controllable 24VDC and 4 controllable 12VDC output ports. It’s a power bar for DC devices, such as DC skimmer pumps, DC return pumps, DC LEDs, DC fans, and more. Put your devices power supply aside and use a Kraken port adapter to plug into your devices normal controller or device. Included is an industrial grade meanwell power supply with a runtime of over 10 years. Upgrade the cheaper consumer grade power supplies of your critical devices with this industrial brick. Also includes integrated battery backup that uses any lead acid battery you want! Hydros software lets you configure everything from the app including power monitoring on each DC output.


Control X10 - The new Quad doser plus! Has 4 integrated high quality kamoer dosing pumps that are bidirectional control from 0.1ml/min to 100ml/min. Super precise stepper motors with high tech drivers that make them silent. On top of that the X10 has a new K10 salinity probe port, a probe MADE specifically for salt water. And even on top of that it has 1 pH probe port, 2 drive ports, and 4 sensor ports. It’s a doser PLUS a controller, but why would you want that? The next accessory below is why…


iV isolated vessel accessory - add this onto the new X10 to gain Alkalinity testing and more! By using 3 dosing pumps, 1 pH port, and 1 drive port on the X10 you gain alkalinity monitoring with tests costing pennies per test by using off the shelf acid/reagent. In addition the iV has a spot for the new K10 salinity probe. By using the testing vessel for measuring salinity, you avoid common issues with electrical interference from using a conductivity probe in a sump. On schedule hydros will fill the testing beaker of the iV and use the integrated stir bar to remove any air bubbles from the probe. Then an accurate salinity measurement is taken. The water sample is then returned to the tank before the next test.


Control XD - Drive Controller. Now you can add 3 drive ports to your collective with the XD. Pair it with 3 simple Hydros dosers and you have a 3 head doser.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Here is a good summary for those who missed the announcement:

Coming in 2023: 4 new huge products


XK Kraken! Your tanks ultimate DC power station. Time to ditch those bricks and run all your 12/24V DC products off the Kraken. Think of it as a DC version of the XP8, 8 controllable 24VDC and 4 controllable 12VDC output ports. It’s a power bar for DC devices, such as DC skimmer pumps, DC return pumps, DC LEDs, DC fans, and more. Put your devices power supply aside and use a Kraken port adapter to plug into your devices normal controller or device. Included is an industrial grade meanwell power supply with a runtime of over 10 years. Upgrade the cheaper consumer grade power supplies of your critical devices with this industrial brick. Also includes integrated battery backup that uses any lead acid battery you want! Hydros software lets you configure everything from the app including power monitoring on each DC output.


Control X10 - The new Quad doser plus! Has 4 integrated high quality kamoer dosing pumps that are bidirectional control from 0.1ml/min to 100ml/min. Super precise stepper motors with high tech drivers that make them silent. On top of that the X10 has a new K10 salinity probe port, a probe MADE specifically for salt water. And even on top of that it has 1 pH probe port, 2 drive ports, and 4 sensor ports. It’s a doser PLUS a controller, but why would you want that? The next accessory below is why…


iV isolated vessel accessory - add this onto the new X10 to gain Alkalinity testing and more! By using 3 dosing pumps, 1 pH port, and 1 drive port on the X10 you gain alkalinity monitoring with tests costing pennies per test by using off the shelf acid/reagent. In addition the iV has a spot for the new K10 salinity probe. By using the testing vessel for measuring salinity, you avoid common issues with electrical interference from using a conductivity probe in a sump. On schedule hydros will fill the testing beaker of the iV and use the integrated stir bar to remove any air bubbles from the probe. Then an accurate salinity measurement is taken. The water sample is then returned to the tank before the next test.


Control XD - Drive Controller. Now you can add 3 drive ports to your collective with the XD. Pair it with 3 simple Hydros dosers and you have a 3 head doser.

Good summary, thank you!

 

[n2585722]

Here is a good summary for those who missed the announcement:

Coming in 2023: 4 new huge products


XK Kraken! Your tanks ultimate DC power station. Time to ditch those bricks and run all your 12/24V DC products off the Kraken. Think of it as a DC version of the XP8, 8 controllable 24VDC and 4 controllable 12VDC output ports. It’s a power bar for DC devices, such as DC skimmer pumps, DC return pumps, DC LEDs, DC fans, and more. Put your devices power supply aside and use a Kraken port adapter to plug into your devices normal controller or device. Included is an industrial grade meanwell power supply with a runtime of over 10 years. Upgrade the cheaper consumer grade power supplies of your critical devices with this industrial brick. Also includes integrated battery backup that uses any lead acid battery you want! Hydros software lets you configure everything from the app including power monitoring on each DC output.


Control X10 - The new Quad doser plus! Has 4 integrated high quality kamoer dosing pumps that are bidirectional control from 0.1ml/min to 100ml/min. Super precise stepper motors with high tech drivers that make them silent. On top of that the X10 has a new K10 salinity probe port, a probe MADE specifically for salt water. And even on top of that it has 1 pH probe port, 2 drive ports, and 4 sensor ports. It’s a doser PLUS a controller, but why would you want that? The next accessory below is why…


iV isolated vessel accessory - add this onto the new X10 to gain Alkalinity testing and more! By using 3 dosing pumps, 1 pH port, and 1 drive port on the X10 you gain alkalinity monitoring with tests costing pennies per test by using off the shelf acid/reagent. In addition the iV has a spot for the new K10 salinity probe. By using the testing vessel for measuring salinity, you avoid common issues with electrical interference from using a conductivity probe in a sump. On schedule hydros will fill the testing beaker of the iV and use the integrated stir bar to remove any air bubbles from the probe. Then an accurate salinity measurement is taken. The water sample is then returned to the tank before the next test.


Control XD - Drive Controller. Now you can add 3 drive ports to your collective with the XD. Pair it with 3 simple Hydros dosers and you have a 3 head doser.

I am very interested in the XD since Don said they will be able to do PWM also. The input to my LED drivers has to be a PWM signal. The 0-10v to PWM converters I have got do not seem to work as well as the Archon PWM outputs at controlling the lights.

 

[minus9]

Are they planning on releasing a module with the salinity probe for people who already have an X4 or X3, etc..? I really like the X10, but I have no need for the dosers.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I'm a hydros fan and have 2 systems running them, but come on dosing pumps on a module that's just cheap looking like they wanted to save money, why not have them seperated they are seperate things they just put together lol, now along with the ridiculous amount of wires OUT OF THE FRONT OF the units, now we gotta manage dosing lines, so much for a clean looking cabinet. Even if I needed that I wouldn't buy it, imo it looks bad and bulky and not something I would want on my system, they already take up to much space having 3 different controllers to make all the ports i actually need, that's crazy I was all hyped up about their new products what a waste of time. Maybe in another 5 years they will start to have something going on.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Not cheaper long term. You can cylce Lithium 3000-5000 times (usually more 10,000 times) before they wear out lead acid will die long before that.

The issue is that lithium batteries are not supposed to be stored fully charged.... so using one in a battery backup device that is intended to stay charged at 100% is not the best use of a lithium battery. You will get a very short life out of that battery.

Lithium batteries have a storage voltage. which is way under being fully charged. Whenever a lithium batttery is charged over it's storage voltage, it's life is shortened.

Thays why new cell phones all have that annoying "battery saver" feature that everyone turns off. But that feature is meant to turn off your phone charger when the battery has reached aprox 60% charge.... that is it's storage voltage. If you charge it beyond that, you are shortening it's life. For the longest battery life span, you shouldn't charge a lithium battery over it's storage voltage... but we all do, which is why they don't last as long as their theoretical lifespan... we abuse them and use them incorrectly.

lithium batteries are not the same as lead acid batteries and can not be treated as such, but we all try!

 

[rmcrom]

The X10 looks great but I'd like to see a cheaper basic 4-head doser with just command and power input for people who don't have a need for all the additional ports on the X10.