I am ready to throw in the towel.

[Servillius]

We have a weird problem in this hobby. When we’re new we tend to listen to the “best” advice by category. What’s the best filter system. What’s the best food. What’s the best nutrient level. It turns out this can be disasterous.

For example, let’s say we search for best nutrient level and it turns out most people say 0 (its an example, I have no idea what most people say). Then we search feeding and most people say very little food. Both of those might be true on average. Put em together and your corals fade and die. You see keeping really low nutrients is fine if your corals are eating well and feeding very little is fine if you have some nutrients for your corals. Each piece of advice in one catagory depends on how you treat another.

This leads me to the only advice I’ll offer. Don’t pick and chose. Pick a system that works and stick with it. Want to try Zeo? Try Zeo. Don’t dabble in it, do it and stick to it. Listen to the folks with the most experience running it successfully. Don’t try to mix it with advice you’re getting from folks running another system.

There are limits. Some few folks know their stuff well enough to advise you well on any system, but they’re few and far between. Most folks know what works for them in their system. It doesn’t always apply to you.

Even doing this, sticking to an established methodology, isn’t always enough. I spent a year trying to figure out why my corals weren’t thriving when they had for the previous two. I kept things going with water changes but if I slowed down corals faded fast. Turns out lots of smokers in the sump room will do that to a tank. No one really has any useful advice for something like that because they don’t know it’s happening until you tell them and when you tell them you’ve already figured the problem out.

Don’t be discouraged, be curious. This is an art, a skill and a science. Find a game plan that works and stick with it. Then spend your time figuring out where you’re not following the plan and fix the problem. There will be a next problem. Work on it.

Lots of folks here say simplify. I’d suggest that’s a version of what I just said. Simple is a danged good system. But simple still requires that you follow one of several simple plans. Know which you’re following.

I lied. I’ll offer another bit of advice. When you’re trying to track down variables that are causing you grief, it helps to eliminate those things that are hard to evaluate. I’d try t5 lights for instance. LEDs are great, but they can require some finesse to get right. I’m finesse challenged. I use halides and t5s because a million years of reefing says they work out the box. When everything else is right, feel free to explore LED. Until then, don’t add the variable.

Don’t give up. Get curious, get systematic, and get your satisfaction from your successes even when they’re small. The hobby is about learning.

Stay with it.

One last thought. Reefers are always throwing in the towel. It’s how we clean up the mess we just made before the wife sees it.

 

[XNavyDiver]

@Elwood Dowd

Hi there

I am new to the marine world since last January...I have a 20 gal nano that I have not gone high-tech with. I've got 2 HOB Aquaclear filters, an AI Prime HD light, and an a wave maker...I do 5 gal water changes about every 2-3 weeks and just keep topping it off with fresh RO water as it evaporates. I too agree that this hobby seems to be way over complicated a lot of times lol

I've got my 4 fish and a very happy mix of corals and invertebrates that are doing just fine!

I would def have to say that going simple has worked for me

This is my tank in July

This is it in August

I got rid of the skimmer and don't use the heater and everyone seems to be quite happy! Rock flowers are up and about all over the tank and mushrooms are multiplying quite nicely!

That birdsnest is seriously getting out of control! Had to move the red one away from it lol

Hope your tank starts getting back to a happy state

Is that digi attached to the glass?

 

[Scott.h]

Hey man I noticed you have not been reporting your ALK and PH. Do you test for those? I would start with simple things by making sure the basics are in order. I had a digi and a monti bleach overnight a couple days ago all it was CAL being too high, spiked to 540 I did 50% WC and color is coming back. Moral of story simple stuff. I could of spent hundreds on crap from LFS or online that I didn't need but instead of pulling my hair out I took a deep breath and just went to the basics. Ehsan Dashti blew my mind on the BRS 2017 Macna lecture video. He turned my whole world of reefing upside down and now I want to start a Triton tank build. check out the video if you haven't seen it, it might re-inspire you.

did you see the original right when it got going? 2014 Denver. It's actually better then that one. I have two full triton systems. No water changes at all.

 

[DeepBlueSomething]

One last thought. Reefers are always throwing in the towel. It’s how we clean up the mess we just made before the wife sees it.

@Elwood Dowd @Servillius

I think you both have hit on the vicious cycle I fear. Because of the financial investment we have already made there is a desire to get all the facts and not 'screw up again' so we do tons of research and buy another gadget...and then same song different verse.

I think the advice of find what is working and go from there is helpful -

 

[PopaSmurph]

did you see the original right when it got going? 2014 Denver. It's actually better then that one. I have two full triton systems. No water changes at all.

Negative I have not seen that video but will watch at work tomorrow, thanks! That's what I'm going for no water changes at all unless I need to remove elements, metals, contaminates, or whatever not P's and N's. Keeping good water is above lighting to me at least. I run t5's to have a good spectrum I'm not chasing PAR I don't even know what mine is at lol, but I know I'm done dumping clear blue water down the drain. I figure what I spend on salt a year could be put toward Triton test kits.

 

[pingzing47]

I run a 55g tank with a 20g sump and have my sps to a point where they need to be trimmed back significantly. I have an ASM 100G sump, 2 Korallas and a small Tunze, an old Orphek Nilus 128 led. Use upper end Red Sea salt, and have no ATO and no auto dosers. Somewhat old school by today's standards. So it proves you can manage a system if patient so don't toss in the towel. Also have 3 red bubble tips, one true percula clown for over 8 years, pajama cardinal, yellow tang and a blue damsel. Also some LPS. It takes TIME. Good luck.

 

[Paul B]

Of course to a Noob all this is very complicated and it gets more complicated the more people come and go in the hobby as they all add their opinions. If you took everyone's advice there would not be enough hours in the day to do all of that. I am in this since 1953 and my tank is still running since 1971 so i learned a couple of things. Of course I am old and my methods are very old school, like one room schoolhouse old. I was here for all the "new" methods as I saw them all come and go. I tried them all and I am still here. I rarely give advice on these forums unless asked because most people would dismiss my methods as they go counter to almost all others here.
For instance, I think quaranting fish is the worse thing you could do and the reason for many, or most of all the failures and diseases. Would you agree with that? Almost all of you would not because quarantining has been taught from the beginning and I used to do that and had all the problems people have now. Water changing. The advice to almost all problems is to change water. I disagree because I feel water gets better as it ages, to a degree.
Would you go along with that? Probably not because current wisdom calls for changing massive amounts of water. Oddly, new tanks with all new water look lousy and are not at all healthy and can't hardly support corals.
Testing often. I believe in a very new tank maybe, but after a little time I learned that water is very stable as long as we don't try to add or remove things from it. Especially if you are changing water every week. The ocean stays stable with no help from us and the things we do to the ocean are detrimental.
Don't go crazy cleaning and vacuuming. Detritus is the stuff the bottom of the food chain lives on and is essential to corals and sponges.
I also believe that almost everyone feeds in such a way that almost guaranties that your fish will "not" live out their natural lifespan which, for most fish is over 15 years and some 30. I don't want to get into that here.
What I am trying to say is keep it simple. Don't go nuts trying to get your parameters exactly where some one thinks they should be. Don't change too much water and don't worry if you see some algae or cyano. Those things are normal and are all over the ocean. Just concentrate on looking at your fish closely. Eventually you will be able to tell if there is something wrong. Healthy fish have no marks or torn fins as they heal very quickly. They should be alert and not hiding. They should all eat with no coaxing from you.
If you keep tweeking your water and lights they will be uncomfortable and show their discomfort by dying.
I wish you great luck in whatever you do and have a great day.

 

[teller]

I liked the part:
"
Don't go crazy cleaning and vacuuming. Detritus is the stuff the bottom of the food chain lives on and is essential to corals and sponges.
"
And also pods and bacteria...

 

[Florida_Angel]

@Florida_Angel

Thanks for sharing your tank and experience -- WHAT are those zoas front and center? Are they really BIG or is it an optical illusion! Great Tank!

Lol hi! Thanks! This tank is my baby, but I am so bad with all the names! I'll find out and let you know. They really are awesome and are that size, but I do not believe they are zoas........some other similar kind. I'll find out! Lol

 

[Florida_Angel]

Is that digi attached to the glass?

It's an MP10...magnetic through the glass! Pretty sweet

 

[DeepBlueSomething]

Lol hi! Thanks! This tank is my baby, but I am so bad with all the names! I'll find out and let you know. They really are awesome and are that size, but I do not believe they are zoas........some other similar kind. I'll find out! Lol

I am a super noob - so very likely I am totally wrong that they are zoas. My only guess, *almost* out of left field.

 

[Florida_Angel]

I am a super noob - so very likely I am totally wrong that they are zoas. My only guess, *almost* out of left field.

Lol I totally get it! I've had fresh tanks basically my whole life....still have 1 and love it...but salt tanks really do have more fun options! LFS people go over everything for me...but man! So many names to remember lol really need to get a book haha. And at least you were in the same ball park!

 

[Grey Guy]

I know you said you don’t trust info from too many people but I would like to share my experience in the past few months I have been in the hobby and hope you will believe me. I started my tank up in April where I asked for all my 14th birthday gifts to be equipment and gift cards to my LFS. 7 or so months later I am running my 46G that has all sorts of corals from simple zoanthids to monti and Acropora. I have never lost a single coral, and the whole time I have strived for simplicity. After I got an understanding of what my tank used up on a daily basis, I have been just dosing them by hand. I rely on a protein skimmer and refugium for my nitrate/phosphate removal. I have done 2 water changes in the time my system has been running and I am seeing more growth and encrusting on my acro frags what seems like each day, and I only have a single $80 black box LED. I really think a lot of people over complicate everything. To me it seems like people are so busy chasing parameters recommended online to actually see what works best for the animals within their tanks.
I’m sorry about all your losses with Irma and hope that you are able to get everything back on track and thriving as soon as you can. Wishing you the best of luck with everything!

Some folks just have a knack for reefing, kinda like a green thumb. I do believe a heavily stocked tank will do better faster, but there is a much bigger financial, and moral risk. Congratulations on your success. Some people might read your post and decide to quit.

 

[Elwood Dowd]

Ist off let me say thank you to everyone who participated in this thread! I rwally appreciate everyone's input.

There was a death in the family so I had to step away from the I ternet long enough to be a grown up.

I failed to post my dkh when I started this thread. Its 11. I also had to step away from the aquarium for a few days and left it to my wife...... Yikes.

Strange things are happening. Still no phosphates. Nitrates still at 20 ppm.

However, my Idaho grape has developed a white growth edge. The frogspawn is the most vibrant green and pink it has ever been the polyps are fat and full. It looks incredible! My wall hammer is super ticked off. That's what it does if I look at it wrong. Neon candy cane has a head spliting and it is looking great. But the pearl colored candy cane is a goner. Green birds nest has bleached and lost all of its polyps. Superman monti has returned to red with bright blue polyps just like its supposed to be.

Basically everything either died or has come back strong with great coloring. Dinos appear to be handled but I'm goimg to give it a long while before I say that.

Its time to fight these nitrates back down to about 5ppm and see how that goes.

Oh, Ethan Hawksfish decided to eat my fire shrimp....

The only thing harder than keeping this tank moving in a positive direction is taking pictures of it.

 

[Dolelo96]

I really appreciate all of the encouragement. I slept on it and now I am ready to fight it again.

I will a dress a couple of things that are reoccurring questions or comments in this thread.

My Chinese black boxes are not Chinese any longer. Maybe I didn't say so (I did lol) i dont like to read long whiney posts either. But the black boxes I have are stuffed with cree, bridgelux and Philips leds royal blue crews make up 65% of 110 less. The rest are a mix of whites with a couple of orange/red and lime thrown in for color correction. This are all on mean well drivers. Nothing inside of them is Chinese black box, except for the box. Not even the fans. I used 80mm attic cpu fans.

As to my dosing of supplements mainly calcium and magnesium. I don't, at the moment. I do have brightwell a-b here ready to use if need be i even have some mixed. But I just don't have the calcium use to necessitate the addition of more. Same with magnesium. DD salts when mixed to 1.024, very consistently, keep my calcium at 440 and magnesium at 1350. I spend a bunch of money on that salt so that I don't have to dose tons of supplements.

Anyway, I really really do appreciate the encouragement!!!! You folks in Jacksonville, maybe a beer is in order one day and to the mention of bio reef, I will have to stop in there one day. Your review of them is glowing and makes me want to spend money there. I have been going to coral logic.

I think you’ll be happy you did. Check out there FB page.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Any updates on your tank’s success or failure?