I feel like I'm doing something wrong, High Nutrients

[AKreuzer]

My tank is about 1 year old, 150g plus sump....my Nitrates will vary between 55 and 75, phosphates from .55-.65. I have had 2 outbreaks of Red Hair Algae (see question 1) the second one has been thwarted (I think by) adding 2 blue tux urchin and a refugium. The refugium consists of a light and cheato...however my cheato is black now (See question 2)....after a few days in changed.

Everyone has instantly gone to feeding...well here is what I am doing
Daily:
a.m. 3/4 of 1 sheet of LRS Premium Seaweed
p.m. ~8-10g of frozen

fish stock
Tangs :
Purple, Naso, Maculiceps, Blue hippo, Chocolate, Powder Brown
FoxFace
Wrasse:
Adorned, male and Female Leopard
Starry Blenny
Goby
Dragon, Bella

Questions
1- most forums/facebook newbies complain about green hair algae....is the fact that mine is red an indicator of something?
2- my cheato is black....all the photos i see its usually a vibrant green...is this connected to why I have red hair algae from time to time rather than green?
3- See photo in next post...is my cheato dead? or just reflecting a sign of something else?
4- I understand some people run high nutrient tanks but this seems far out of the norm am I right?

 

[AKreuzer]

 

[MarsReefer]

So you can break it down into a couple questions:

1. Are those numbers stable now or still climbing? What were they 3 months ago? 6 months ago?

2. What is your nutrient export? What skimmer? How fast does it fill up? How much chaeto do you have to pull out every week? How much algae do you pull out every week?

There are two ways to get nutrients down:

1. Put less in then you are taking out
2. Water changes

Water changes will get you back down but it will only stay down if you balance out your import vs export. People suggest feeding less because it is easier but you can also increase export.

Ways to increase export:

1. Increase amount you are skimming
2. Clean filters more regularly. BRS showed a decrease of 40% in nitrates and phosphates if they went all the way to daily changing out filter socks
3. Increase light hours in your refugium to increase uptake. I ran mine 24 hours a day for a while to bring nutrients down. I grow hair algae in my refugium but I was taking out a softball sized amount (after squeezing it out) every week.

You need to balance your export with your input nutrients and then you can use water changes to get the baseline levels down to where you want them.

 

[AKreuzer]

1. Are those numbers stable now or still climbing? What were they 3 months ago? 6 months ago? (Id say that they have been pretty stable over the last 3-5 months.....over the last 9 (post cycle they have been slowly creeping up)

2. What is your nutrient export? What skimmer? How fast does it fill up? How much chaeto do you have to pull out every week? How much algae do you pull out every week? Skimmer:Reef Octopus Regal 200SSS I empty it roughly once per week. Filter: Theiling Compact Roller Mat (If algea is bad I can go through a roll every 3 weeks....if algea is not bad maybe every 2 months). Cheato- I have not pulled any out...it has only been in there for about 3 weeks but its good to know i can run the light 24h

There are two ways to get nutrients down:

1. Put less in then you are taking out
2. Water changes

Water changes will get you back down but it will only stay down if you balance out your import vs export. People suggest feeding less because it is easier but you can also increase export.

Ways to increase export:

1. Increase amount you are skimming
2. Clean filters more regularly. BRS showed a decrease of 40% in nitrates and phosphates if they went all the way to daily changing out filter socks
3. Increase light hours in your refugium to increase uptake. I ran mine 24 hours a day for a while to bring nutrients down. I grow hair algae in my refugium but I was taking out a softball sized amount (after squeezing it out) every week.

You need to balance your export with your input nutrients and then you can use water changes to get the baseline levels down to where you want them.

Responses in Yellow above....is there more that I should be doing? This is where I think something isn't adding up....Im doing the things without the results. FWIW the skimmer and rollermat are in the recommended depths of water in the sump

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I agree with above, it basically comes down to import vs export, and I think you have a very heavy bioload.

Do you have corals or is it a fish only tank? Do you have good flow in the tank?

 

[MarsReefer]

Responses in Yellow above....is there more that I should be doing? This is where I think something isn't adding up....Im doing the things without the results. FWIW the skimmer and rollermat are in the recommended depths of water in the sump

So if they aren’t rising anymore then that means your current input is the same as your export. That is good.

I would do 3-4 50% water changes over the next month in addition to whatever your current water changes routine is. That will cut your values down from 50 to 25, to 12.5, to 6.25 over 4 changes.

After that you can monitor to see if they stay there or start climbing again. If they stay there then great, nothing else needed, keep doing what you are doing.

If they start climbing again you need to find a way to balance better. My guess is that your current biggest input is the seaweed. The tangs will eat the algae in your tank if it is short enough. First thing I’d try is reducing the seaweed input slightly. They are messy eaters and compressed seaweed can spike nutrients a good bit when it’s flying all over the tank in my experience. Keep an eye out for aggression though, you may need to look elsewhere to keep the tangs passive.

Turning up the refugium time is an easy one as is increasing the intensity of the refugium light. You need more PAR in your refugium then in your display tank so that algae prefers to grow down there wheee you can pull it out easier. I’ll admit I never had any luck with chaeto it just keep dying on me, but now I grow absurd amounts of hair algae in my fuge and very little in my display.

Overall I’d say those are really high levels that I’d want to get down.

Another detail is the size and amount of corals in your tank? My corals suck up a lot of nutrients.

 

[AKreuzer]

I agree with above, it basically comes down to import vs export, and I think you have a very heavy bioload.

Do you have corals or is it a fish only tank? Do you have good flow in the tank?

I am starting to get coral, small frags
2 zoanthid discs
2 blastos
2 candy cane's
a weeping willow leather
a moon stone
a favia
an acan
I have some GSP on the backwall....and that almost died off due to the algea but i have increased flow to that area and it seems to be bouncing back

Id like to think I have good flow....my return pump is Simplicity 2100DC pump @50% shooting across the top. I have 2 Gyre XF 350's one near the top on the left side (opposite the return pump) and one slightly lower on the same side as the return pump "both in the top 1/3 of the tank"

 

[manaman]

Do you have any ceramic porus media in your sump by any chance?

 

[bushdoc]

Lot's of valid points here, voiced by othe reefers.
Basically the bigest issue here in my oppinion is very high bioload in relatively young tank. To give you a perspective-I have similar size tank with two Tangs, pair of Clownfish, Flame hawkfish and few smaller fish and nutrients are low. Surely, I can ad more fish.
Do you have enough porous rock? Can you add more?
I suppose trimming your fish population is out of question ?
Lowering phosphates by means of water changes is of limited value ( you can lower Nitrates that way), so if your refugium doesn't reduce them efficiently, it might be time for GFO or Lanthanum.
Good luck!

 

[AKreuzer]

@bushdoc and @manaman

the tank itself has about 2" of sand and when I stood the tank up it was 2/3 (150lbs) new white rock and 1/3 (40lbs) "life rock" I have a couple of the extra rocks in the sump.

I am wondering if I should order more chaeto?

 

[AKreuzer]

A guess one other question is....does this chaeto look dead?

 

[ryanjohn1]

A guess one other question is....does this chaeto look dead?

I feel like it shouldn’t be that color. But I’ve also never had it. I have the opposite problem as you. I was just celebrating cause my nitrate is at 3 today

 

[Dbichler]

With that many big fish your bioload is maxed out. Doubt anything other than carbon dosing and wet skimming will help as it will just continue to stay high and most likely continue to get higher. On a 150 water-changes will help but also cost a small fortune over time. I never had good luck with chaeto but yours looks close to dead probably because it is suffocating itself you need to spread it out so all of it can get light and water flow.

 

[Uncle99]

How large a macro algae you run?
I need about 2’x2’x8” to maintain a 180g with 4 big tangs at 11ppm nitrate and .2ppm phosphate with 10% water change every 2 weeks.

 

[mangolove]

I like the advice everyone has been giving here

Do you maybe have a friend or someone who is helping you?

Also, what method are you using?

How do you do trace elements?

 

[AKreuzer]

Ok going on the above...
I just spread the cheato out a bit....from time to time it would tumble on its own so we will see if this helps

Cheato/refugium compartment...roughly 6"w x8"h x 12"deep

Checkers
Nitrate-hanna checker
Phosphates- Hannah checker
Mag- salifert
Ammonia-salifert
Nitrite-salifert

As far as a friend....I got you guys and my LFS

Feeling kinda alone sometimes

R2R has been amazing I love it compared to the keyboard warriors on Facebook

BRS has had some good advice over time as well when I've called then

 

[jda]

Chaeto will need iron to grow well. Looser balls grow better too. If you are not changing water reqularly, you might need to dose iron. Iron helps all algae grow, though.

 

[mangolove]

Oke, so just my 2 cents and this is just coming from experience. I will reccommend just what i will recommend and what I would do.

- If you dose daily by hand:
Aquaforest probio s and -np pro (takes time to work) but will get your nitrates really low in time. I know this because my parents use this method and have a big bioload in a nano tank and works perfectly.

Aquaforest phosfate minus in media bag in sump

Zeomix and life bio fill(replace 20% monthly)

-All for reef for ca ma kh and major and minor trace. Or aquaforest component 1+ 2+ 3+ for the same thing.

Or aquaforest micro-e for the cheato

Ask yourself how well your skimmer works? If it works fine dont bother

Add More rocks in the sump - and also.. when u do a water change add aquaforest bio S

Furthermore use something like red sea reef energy ab or amino's but again i like aquaforest.

Af Energy + build
Af Vitality + amino

Also for the red algea : AF Life source. Helps me to get rid of it.

And also : check your lights! Is it not to much light? Your cheato should outcompete the hair algea. And your cheato definitively needs iron.

And last but not least do some water changes And give it time

 

[ronsonb]

I have battled high nutrients myself in my 1yr old tank and have a fuge, and feed reasonably both corals and fish.

While I wait for things to mature more, This week I bought everything to build “Donovan’s Nitrate Destroyer” in hopes that helps my issue. It’s a relatively simple concept that has great feedback for working. Give it a search there is a good write up on it.

 

[Reefering1]

A guess one other question is....does this chaeto look dead?

Does it look more green if you shine a flashlight on it(regular "white" light vs. Red)? Also appears to have cyano growing on/in it. Mine looks alot like yours and has been healthy/ growing for about 8 years, never dying off. And it is a nice deep green viewed with flashlight