I just don’t get it

[BullyBee]

Hey now. I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s because all my experience is freshwater. No matter how I google this I can’t find an answer....

I have to write this like I am explaining it to someone else. If you can’t explain it then I wonder how much of it I really understand.

Soooooo in saltwater, one of the most popular ways to keep a tank healthy is a sump. But the sump doesn’t actually pump water back in the way a canister filter does (constant flow back and forth). It just sends up what it needs? When the water gets to high in the sump the pump kicks in and sends it up to the main tank? Is that how it works? A float does the monitoring? Is that how it works? How do you not end up with floods?

 

[SteveEreef]

Here is a good explanation of how it works

What is a sump? | Melev's Reef

A sump gives you greater control over your reef or fish-only display tank. The benefits far exceed the risks, and thus most successful aquariums you'll see utilize a sump. Some even incorporate a refugium as well. Here are the numerous benefits derived from incorporating a sump into your current...

www.melevsreef.com

 

[ScottR]

Hey now. I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s because all my experience is freshwater. No matter how I google this I can’t find an answer....

I have to write this like I am explaining it to someone else. If you can’t explain it then I wonder how much of it I really understand.

Soooooo in saltwater, one of the most popular ways to keep a tank healthy is a sump. But the sump doesn’t actually pump water back in the way a canister filter does (constant flow back and forth). It just sends up what it needs? When the water gets to high in the sump the pump kicks in and sends it up to the main tank? Is that how it works? A float does the monitoring? Is that how it works? How do you not end up with floods?

I’m not totally following. But a sump could be thought of as a giant canister filter. It’s also a great place to keep all of your filtration and equipment. Filter socks. Filter pads. Skimmer. Heater. Etc. your over flow box will prevent floods. Once you cut flow to your tank from your return pump, water won’t leak from your tank into sump unless you have a plumbing problem. Also depends on your overflow as well. ATOs can be a problem for leaks however.

 

[beaslbob]

A sump by definition is the lowest container. In an aquarium the sump continuously pumps the water to the higher container. An overflow in that container than drains water back to the sump. The more you pump the more overflows so no switches or valves are needed.

My .02

 

[Jaebster]

The display tank and sump are 2 different bodies of water. Think of it as a lake on top of the mountain and the ocean. When the lake gets overrun with rainwater, the overflow drains in through a river system down to the ocean (gravity fed). Eventually, the flow of water will be reduced and eventually stop feeding the river and the ocean. But if you stick a pump in the ocean and push the water back up to the lake via piping, eventually the lake will again overflow in to the ocean.
In our system, the water is the display is filled to capacity and the sump is filled to capacity when all pumps are off... meaning the display does not gravity feed the sump anymore. When the pump in sump is turned on, the return camber in sump reduces because the sump volume decreases as it feeds water back to the display. So the display is constantly being overrun with water. You weir takes the overrun and sends water back to display.

 

[TheHarold]

It’s much more simple than you think. The pump pushes it up 24/7, and gravity takes anything down that gets above the teeth of the overflow. If the pump is pushing 1 gph or 100gph, if it goes into the overflow, it goes down

no sensors, no timers, nada

of course eventually you can manage to have a too large pump that pumps up more than gravity can take down a specific pipe size, in which case the overflow setup is too small.

 

[BullyBee]

Is the pump constantly running??? It just when needed

 

[Pudge&Bubbl]

Hey now. I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s because all my experience is freshwater. No matter how I google this I can’t find an answer....

I have to write this like I am explaining it to someone else. If you can’t explain it then I wonder how much of it I really understand.

Soooooo in saltwater, one of the most popular ways to keep a tank healthy is a sump. But the sump doesn’t actually pump water back in the way a canister filter does (constant flow back and forth). It just sends up what it needs? When the water gets to high in the sump the pump kicks in and sends it up to the main tank? Is that how it works? A float does the monitoring? Is that how it works? How do you not end up with floods?

It sounds like you're mixing up the auto-top-off and the sump. An auto-top-off (ATO) is what kicks in using a float device, typically. A sump does circulate water like a canister filter - what comes down goes back up- you just use gravity to pull from the tank and use a pump to send it back. It will always be circulating unless you stop it for one reason or another.

Hope that helps

 

[TheHarold]

Is the pump constantly running??? It just when needed

24/7. Constant filtration and flow. Water gets aerated too.

 

[Jaebster]

To answer your second part about flooding. Points of flooding can happen anywhere at anytime. I.e. your gravity fed drain from tank to sump get blocked by algae, critters, kink in flexible tubing, blockage on weir, etc. Other flooding issues are automatic water change systems and auto freshwater tipoff systems failing to stop filling. Prevention of these problems are called redundancies where you have fail-safes built in.

 

[BullyBee]

Ok so if I built a sump today (which I’m not) I would just need an overflow box or something like that and a pump for the sump that is constantly on? If I have a 100gph sump pump it will overflow and return faster than if I had a 10gph pump?

Does anyone use a hob protein skimmer and a refugium sump or is that just dumb?

 

[Jaebster]

Ok so if I built a sump today (which I’m not) I would just need an overflow box or something like that and a pump for the sump that is constantly on? If I have a 100gph sump pump it will overflow and return faster than if I had a 10gph pump?

Does anyone use a hob protein skimmer and a refugium sump or is that just dumb?

1st question, correct. Be sure you check the gph ratings on a overflow box. The pump gph is normally rated at 0 head height. If your pump is located 5 ft below the height of the return outlet, you have 5ft of head height. This reduces the gph flow on the pump. If you have an AC pump, you can not control the gph speed. On DC pump, you can adjust gph speed. Also depending on your dusplay tank size 100gph may be overkill or not enough. I.e. if your DT is 200 gallon, 100gph will not be enough to support the system and equipment under the sump to be effective. On a 10 gallon nano, 100 gph is overkill and may actually be more harmful to the inhabitants of the display tank. Also, you sump would then be larger than you display, lol.

 

[BullyBee]

I’m looking at a 40-55 gallon FOWLR w/ a 15 to 20 gallon sump. Fish would be valentini puffer.

 

[Jaebster]

For your 2and question, depending on ur display tank size, hangs on equipment would dependent on DT size. "Nornally" you wouldn't put hang on equipment for larger systems as the hangon equipment is limited in its capacity to be effective.

You best bet in getting better responses here would be to give more detailed information... i.e. planning on 60 gallon with possible 20 gallon sump. .. does anyone have experience with HOB skimmer and Refudium wiht a sunless 60 gallon DT?... etc. Hope this helps!

 

[BullyBee]

Thanks it does help!

 

[beaslbob]

Is the pump constantly running???


...

Yep

 

[Jaebster]

Thanks it does help!

Awesome. I recommend using the search function and doing a little research on other posts. Search for "HOB", Fowlr, "sumpless", etc. I'm sure prior posts will help you tremendously. And feel free at ask other questions if similar posts dont answer your question.

 

[ScottR]

Ok so if I built a sump today (which I’m not) I would just need an overflow box or something like that and a pump for the sump that is constantly on? If I have a 100gph sump pump it will overflow and return faster than if I had a 10gph pump?

Does anyone use a hob protein skimmer and a refugium sump or is that just dumb?

If you have a sump, there’s no need for a HOB skimmer. Usually those are used for tanks without a sump. And a refugium is almost always in the sump. A sump is basically where we sweep everything under the rug.

 

[beaslbob]

Go to a sink with the little hole near the top. Plug the drain and turn on the water. The water will rise in the sink to that hole and then start draining. That is the overflow for the sink and the running water simulates the pump.

 

[jeffchapok]

I started off with a HOB filter (Fluval C4) on my 60 gal. But with the filter, heater and UV sterilizer (water was always cloudy), my tank was getting crowded. So I made a small sump from a 6 gal acrylic aquarium (biggest I could get in my stand) and moved the heater and UV into it, plus added a skimmer. I built my own overflow from PVC. I kept the HOB and plumbed my return directly into it rather than add a second return.

Later I added a filter sock to the sump so I could probably eliminate the HOB altogether at this point. But since it's already serving as my return, I figured why not just leave it. The additional filtration can't hurt, and I use it to house a bag of carbon. Plus since the return water flows through the HOB's filter before going back into the tank, I don't get any microbubbles from my skimmer. There are no baffles in my sump - no room for them.

I've since added an ATO and a refugium too. The little sump is packed!