I need a little help

[fragmatic]

If you have a dose product that will dose both alk and calc in one bottle, something is odd about that. It is my understanding they need to be dosed separately in different areas of the tank so they do not precept out of the water by binding together too soon.

The way I was taught was: ("You add calc somewhere and alk somewhere else so they have a chance to reach the creatures who need them. When they find each other they cancel each other") Now, that is not exactly true, but it works for a simplistic understanding, I'm told.

So, based on that apology they can't be in the same bottle. This is as I understand why we have a part 1 and part 2 system.

 

[Budman's Corals]

If you have a dose product that will dose both alk and calc in one bottle, something is odd about that. It is my understanding they need to be dosed separately in different areas of the tank so they do not precept out of the water my binding together too soon.

The way I was taught was: ("You add calc somewhere and alk somewhere else so they have a chance to reach the creatures who need them. When they find each other they cancel each other") Now, that is not exactly true, but it works for a simplistic understanding, I'm told.

So, based on that apology they can't be in the same bottle. This is as I understand why we have a part 1 and part 2 system.

I agree with that..

 

[mike007]

From what i am hearing i think you need to go back to the basics. Keep things simple and don't keep adding alot of stuff into your tank to get quick fixes. Unless you are growing alot of exotic corals a good salt mix will provide everything you need provided you do your water changes. Most people that have problems with nitrate and phosphate are overfeeding. It is too easy to go overboard watching your fish chow down. They will do fine with with a limited supply of food. Also a lot of people are having great success with carbon dosing to take control over nitrate and phos problems. Over the years i have learned to keep my hands out of tanks and keep things simple.

 

[Budman's Corals]

From what i am hearing i think you need to go back to the basics. Keep things simple and don't keep adding alot of stuff into your tank to get quick fixes. Unless you are growing alot of exotic corals a good salt mix will provide everything you need provided you do your water changes. Most people that have problems with nitrate and phosphate are overfeeding. It is too easy to go overboard watching your fish chow down. They will do fine with with a limited supply of food. Also a lot of people are having great success with carbon dosing to take control over nitrate and phos problems. Over the years i have learned to keep my hands out of tanks and keep things simple.

feed only the size of the fish's eye... I was way overfeeding when i first started.

Tell me fish dont act like dogs, beggin all the time lol

 

[mike007]

They never seem to get full. They will keeping eating untill you quit putting in the grub. Hogs

 

[mcarroll]

I tested my water just now and got the following: PH - 7.64 (Hanna); ALK - 143 (Hanna); Calcium - 483 (Hanna); Phosphates .97 (Hanna); Salinity 1.26(refractometer) ; 77.7 degrees; nitrates 40 (Seachem); Magnesium 1140 (salifert) I just dosed some magnesium. Can I treat for more than one thing at a time? One of my Acan colonies is melting. Would it hurt anything to put some Chemipure Elite in? I do use KZ Coral Snow, Pohls Xtra, Sponge Power, Coral Vitalizer and LPS. I didn't know if there would be a negative reaction between the Chemipure and the KZ. My tank is just a hot mess and any advice or criticisms will be welcomed!

Reef Crystals and I do a water change bi-weekly.

The quickest broad-based solution I can recommend for all those numbers is to "go crazy" with your water changes for a week or two - 10% per day. (Start with a 20%-30% if you want..or as much as you're comfortable doing.) Using your salt and quality RODI water, this should do a lot to bring the numbers in line, if not correct everything altogether. I would start ASAP if you haven't been doing this already.

I do think you need to reassess your water change schedule and do at least 20% weekly (or 10% twice a week...whatever). If the cost/complexity of adding a reactor or two seems like a good idea, then that will help...you may find you can get by without though. Depends how you feel about more water changes and if your tank is overstocked or overfed at all.

How are the corals looking now that it's a couple days later? Also, have you tested your RODI water that you use for salt mixing and top-off for Phosphates?

Good luck and let us know how things have (or haven't) progressed!

I know a lot of people will disagree but, I think CPE is a total waste of money. You can separately bag Carbon and GFO and get the same results for a lot less $.

Depends how much you're paying for CPE and depends how bad off your tank is. If your tank is set up and stocked reasonably, CPE can be a fine solution to slightly extend between water changes or to keep things looking better between them. It's worth pointing out that while cheaper, bagging your own is also a mess that not everyone wants to/is able to "mess with". OTOH, if your tank is "surviving by carbon and phosphate remover" then you're right, you will need a more economical source of media. (I would also say a tank has bigger issues than cost of carbon if cost of carbon is enough to become a concern...if you know what I mean.)

-Matt

 

[Connie]

Here's an update. Checked parameters again yesterday. Phosphates and Nitrates were even higher than before. I did a 30% water change. I dosed with PhosBuster. One weird thing is I have NO algae of any kind in the DT....not even coralline. I do not overfeed. But let me go backwards a little bit to explain what I think is happening and you tell me if you agree. I upgraded from a 90g to a 180g about 4 or 5 months ago. I am presently using the same sump/fuge I was using for the 90g. It was a wet/dry system. I removed the bioballs and put a refugium in its place. It has a tray that I put filters in and sometimes Chemipure. When I upgraded, I bought another skimmer (Aqua C). It is in the sump and skimming; however, now the skimmer side of the sump blocks the filter tray and refugium. To change the filter I have to take the top off the skimmer and I can still only barely get my hand in there enough to slide a filter into it. I cannot take the tray out and clean it. I cannot get to the refugium at all. I truly think that is where my problem lies and that is why I dosed PhosBuster for a temporary fix. I have ordered a larger refugium (Aqueon Proflex Model 4) and a dual reactor from BRS for carbon and gfo. I will be switching from a filter tray to socks. The over-crowded sump has been driving me crazy. I'm feeling good about what the final outcome will be once this is completed. Any thoughts or suggestions while I'm changing stuff?

 

[Paul C.]

Cant go wrong with bigger filter set ups. I'd suggest getting the mesh filter socks vs the felt. I know people wash their felt ones and re-use. The boss lady wont let me use the washing machine for "fish tank" stuff. I can use the sink (lol) so, the mesh filters are the way to go IMO. I change them 2-3 times a week. I'd stop dosing all that stuff.. Water changes are the foundation for a happy system. Did u buy the Maxi for the dual reactor or the mag pump? I run a single BRS reactor with their high capacity GFO and the 1200 maxi. I hang a bag of carbon in my sump. Was told the duals are tough to "set up" flow wise bc they are tied together and driven off one pump. Gfo made a huge difference in my tank. I over feed my tank due to chalices, and a monster black sun coral. My phosphates were 1.12 at one point. (YES, no typo there 1.XX) With the reactor and same feeding, i'm under .1 I like the KISS method. (keep it simple stu%&*) Keep us posted. Paul C.

 

[Connie]

Cant go wrong with bigger filter set ups. I'd suggest getting the mesh filter socks vs the felt. I know people wash their felt ones and re-use. The bodd lady wont let me use the washing machine for "fish tank" stuff. I can use the sink (lol) so, the mesh filters are the way to go IMO. I change them 2-3 times a week. I'd stop dosing all that stuff.. Water changes are the foundation for a happy system. Did u buy the Maxi for the dual reactor or the mag pump? I run a single BRS reactor with their high capacity GFO and the 1200 maxi. I hang a bag of carbon in my sump. Was told the duals are tough to "set up" flow wise bc they are tied together and driven off one pump. Gfo made a huge difference in my tank. I over feed my tank due to chalices, and a monster black sun coral. My phosphates were 1.12 at one point. (YES, no typo there 1.XX) With the reactor and same feeding, i'm under .1 I like the KISS method. (keep it simple stu%&*) Keep us posted. Paul C.

Thanks for your input Paul! I do plan on taking your advise and KISS it. lol. I am going to use whatever socks comes with the sump to start with and when I have to re-order, I will order mesh. Also, I just ordered the MJ 1200 that BRS recommends. This unit has the best user reviews of any other one. I also order the recommended carbon and GFO. Thanks for the heads up on the socks!

 

[Paul C.]

How long have u been playing in Salt Connie?

 

[Connie]

How long have u been playing in Salt Connie?

about 3.5 years. Still wet behind the ears. I'll probably stay that way. :nerd:

 

[Budman's Corals]

Thanks for your input Paul! I do plan on taking your advise and KISS it. lol. I am going to use whatever socks comes with the sump to start with and when I have to re-order, I will order mesh. Also, I just ordered the MJ 1200 that BRS recommends. This unit has the best user reviews of any other one. I also order the recommended carbon and GFO. Thanks for the heads up on the socks!

cant go wrong with that reactor,been running mine a year and I always have below .03 People say they have prob with running both carbon and GFO I dont with my maxi1200. now using a sock will help keep the foam pads cleaner so the flow will go thru easier. actually not the foam pad but the bottom of the gfo reactor screen..

 

[Connie]

Update ----with good news this time! I got my sump changed out to the Aqueon Proflex Model 4 and I love this thing...so quiet. I let it run a few days and checked my Phospates. They are down from .97 to .5. What I didn't tell you was that at it's highest, the phosphates were at 2.25! The previous sump had 4 months of gunk in it that I couldn't access to clean it out. Last night I installed the BRS Dual Carbon/GFO reactor. I did still have low alk (100 on Hanna), so I am trying to get that up. I am going to test again in a couple of days and hopefully all parameters will be in line. My SPS are taking a hit. PE on most of them is very little if any, with some tips bleaching. I think it is because of the ALK. Thank you guys for all your help and I will keep you posted on how it goes.

 

[Paul C.]

Great news regarding ur phos problem Connie. Im not a stick guy, but ur alk being in the 5's is gunna hurt any type of corals. I just went back to read this entire thread, and i didnt see anything about dosing. Are you?? Also, im pretty sure SPS's like mag also. Are you testing that?

 

[fragmatic]

Connie,
I have one other piece of advice, I may of gotten confused in all the posting, but if you are running any kind of filtering in addition to the skimmer and BRS GFO/carbon. ...get rid of the filter system. With a good refugium and sump, you DO NOT need nor want a filter of any kind, IMO all additional filtering is going to do is add maintenance chores and cause trapped nasty spike causing problems. .. and I think the filter most likely is/was your problem.

IE: My display tank is a 90. I run a sump, skimmer, two small (a 20 and a 10) refugiums, and almost never need to turn on my GFO/carbon, ... and I feed heavy with frozen coral and fish food.. and... plenty of phyto. I use heavy lighting over my 10 gal refugium and run it at night when the lights to the DT are out. My 20 gallon refugium is a display refugium idea I am testing and has the lights on the same times as the main display. My coral are healthy (as is everything) and my tests are rock solid. I dose Reef Fusion's parts 1 & 2, Kent's iodine mix, and Brightwell's "Replenish". I also dose Brightwell's "Liquid Reef", but am planning to nix it, soon, maybe today, so don't count it

If you decide to do the heavy feeding method you will have to get your tank stable first. Then you increase the feeding volume in tiny increments over a few weeks. This allows the bacteria to grow as you go. Once you get to where you are feeding heavy you will find out that with full time skimming your tank will have more nutrients and will be rock solid stable. I believe the stability is from the buffers provided by the increased bacteria count. Now, realize if you do this you must feed heavy consistently or you can kill off bacteria and inflict a reverse crash bloom. Suddenly decreasing feeding is just as bad and suddenly over feeding in that respect.

Don't do this but do read it: I now only change my water once a month and am on 5 weeks with this change. If I can use this method, AND extend my water change time, then I am proving that this method can work even in those cases where people are delinquent with water changes. To do this you must export algae, and add trace elements. Please realize, I'm experimenting with adding traces, exporting algae, and extending water change times as an experiment. But the point is, it proves even more so that it works. Let me clarify, I recommend you do, do regular water changes.

(I would like to prove we have the additives and skills and methods to not do water changes, but it is way to early to even pretend to assume I can do so. I know there is a group of reefers who use algae scrubbers and no longer do water changes... but before I will do that I must prove it for my self. Plus, I want to prove it is not necessarily dependent on an algae scrubber. So, I am slowly increasing water change times with a water change tank ready to do an emergency change at any time.)

 

[Paul C.]

fragmatic, what lighting do you use on ur refuges? I cant seem to get my cheato to grow. I'd say that i need a larger refuge to see the kinda of results you are seeing.. I'm using one of those coralife LED units. Not seeing any growth with it.

 

[Connie]

Paul, right now I am dosing ALK buffer and also Brightwell's Mag, just not at the same time. I was using the zeo products but I haven't used them now in about a month. I dose iodine a few drops once a week. I'm trying to keep it simple.

 

[Connie]

Fragmatic...My 180g filtration now consists of the dual ca/gfo reactor, refugium with live rock and chaeto, AquaC EV 240 skimmer and three socks. Are you saying I shouldn't use the socks? Oh, I also have JBJ's LED fuge light that I run on opposite of the display lights.

 

[Paul C.]

Great question Connie. Im curious also about not running the socks. ( i have the small model 2 sump ) Was just thinking my Reef octopus isnt really doing a good job skimming, but thought maybe its doing its job, and the socks are also doing theres. I cant wait to see his reply.

Has all ur levels seem to become stable now Connie? Im not into SPS's, so im just manually dosing BRS 2 part. Alk in the am and Cal in the evening.

 

[Connie]

Levels are slowly getting back in line. High phosphates caused the ALK drop and it was all a chain reaction from there. I guess I have about half/half SPS and LPS. They are starting to look a little happier. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. It was just amazing to me what a difference the sump/refugium made. I'm tickled.