I need some advice on my aquarium

[TheGreenReefer]

Hi everybody,
I'm trying to get my tank stable, but I feel like everything I try isn't working. My nutrients are constantly bottoming out which results in a dino bloom which i fix with dosing nitrate and phosphate. what sucks about the dinos is I cant do many water changes. I've been dealing with this for over 6 months and I feel like I haven't seen any coral growth since the tank was set up.

Tank: I adopted this tank 8 moths ago. The previous owner built an amazing custom stand. It was running for a year before I owned it.
-40Breeder on a custom stand with a custom 20g sump
-around 70 lbs of live rock in the system with one marine pure in the sump

Equipment:
-skimmer is not working properly right now but is decent and rated for over 100 gallons(I have it turned off for 2 weeks now)
-4-5x turnover witha jaboe return pump
-flow 2x mp10 running at 60-70% reefcrest
-filter socks have been removed today

Lighting
-Kessil h80 to grow the chaeto in the sump (slight success)
-2x retro fit t5 blue plus bulbs
-mars aqua 300 watt
- schedule: 6am-5pm 60% blue led ; 930am-3pm 10%white led + t5

Chemistry:
-salinity: 35ppt
-temp 79.2F
-no3 2ppm, (bottoms out, currently dosing kno3)
-po4 (bottoms out, dosing kpo4)
-alk: 7.3dkh (tryring to raise)
-calc: 520mg/L ( trying to lower, I use Kalk in my ato for alk and calc)

-not running any carbon or gfo currnetly

Livestock:
-3 small clowns
-1 small yellow tang
-1 algae blenny
-1small royal dotty
-1 small azure damsel
-1 scooter blenny

-inverts: blue legged hermits(20-30) trocus snails(5x) nasarrius snails(5x)

-corals include zoas, palys, mushrooms, red monti, hammer, frogspawn, gsp, bta, candy cane(done the best, is actually splitting, bu very slowly)

Feeding
- once a day, most of the time pellets, but twice a week I use frozen mysis with seaweed

Any advice/ tips/ critiques about this setup would be greatly appreciated
Thank you!

 

[Leicobra]

Hi, what is your lighting schedule in the sump? Cheato growth? How often do you harvesting them? I wouldn't worry not much about the tank parameters. Just keep them stable. Slowly increase your feed though. Tank is young when nutrients are low. Try not to run you light too long and too intense. I would tune down your lighting schedule a little. Your N and P need time to find balance. Before that, try your best to be consistent with your import and export. Feed and water changes. In time your tank will find the sweet spot.
Good luck!

 

[brandon429]

If it was my system I’d take it apart, rinse the sand, replace the water and jet off the rocks in between corals with saltwater to eject both detritus and any invader from the crevices. Correct rip cleaning isn’t harmful or destabilizing, it’s lifespan increasing and positive. Most wont run it, pure fear. Some take time to read the sand rinse thread and see it being done to two hundred tanks that happen to be moving homes etc or business or doing skip cycle tank upgrades and downgrades.

rarely do people feel allowed to make thorough work of light invasions before they take over fully. We are required to farm it up to full mass. When it comes to invasion prevention the rules are go slow, proceed slow, only bad happens fast and no direct action/destabilization results.

but if eighty people want to set up instant reefs at MACNA or move to a new home, they just instantly do all the things we’d be doing to your tank as a giant interception...rules are so strange


a map of before and after exists and the after pics are why people keep repeating the move as tank boosting, prevention, cleanup etc. to thoroughly clean the tank isn’t harmful it’s best option as an export run. All it does is remove waste, that doesn’t alter your N and P readings you can dose for those.

slow drain
catch fish hold elsewhere in tank water
remove rocks jet with saltwater to dislodge waste, pick and clear off algae externally, outside of water
-100% rinse sand until it runs clear cloudless.
put back rocks and clear sand into new tank water match old salinity and temp only
reacclimate fish
done

 

[Leicobra]

Hi, what is your lighting schedule in the sump? Cheato growth? How often do you harvesting them? I wouldn't worry not much about the tank parameters. Just keep them stable. Slowly increase your feed though. Tank is young when nutrients are low. Try not to run you light too long and too intense. I would tune down your lighting schedule a little. Your N and P need time to find balance. Before that, try your best to be consistent with your import and export. Feed and water changes. In time your tank will find the sweet spot.
Good luck!

Dino is hard to beat,but it's not the end of your tank. About every time I have a young system. I run into either cyano or Dino. For dino, a UZ sterilizer and change out your filter pad daily might be helpful. Increase water flow and use seachem purigen in a bag in sump. Don't be shy with your water changes. When you change water siphoning out your sand bed as much as possible. It had worked for me personally. It's frustrating I totally understand.

 

[TheGreenReefer]

Hi, what is your lighting schedule in the sump? Cheato growth? How often do you harvesting them? I wouldn't worry not much about the tank parameters. Just keep them stable. Slowly increase your feed though. Tank is young when nutrients are low. Try not to run you light too long and too intense. I would tune down your lighting schedule a little. Your N and P need time to find balance. Before that, try your best to be consistent with your import and export. Feed and water changes. In time your tank will find the sweet spot.
Good luck!

the sump light runs 6pm to 6am and I'm not harvesting any as of right now. I added the chaeto 3 weeks ago and its maybe doubled in size. I've been wanting to purchase an automatic feeder. Ill bring the lights down over this week. going to be doing a water change soon. Thank you for the help!

I've gotten rid of the dinos once before but the recently came back and with a vengeance. what uv sterilizer would you recommend besides the expensive brs ones? I think Ill tru to do a 10% water change a week and see where that gets me. The seachem purigen works on dinos?

 

[King Turkey]

I would not change stuff just keep up on water changes feed extra would be enough to get nitrate and po4 up. I have pretty much the same set up as you but no sump all a aio 40 breeder. I did not have the problems you are having feeding the same as you pretty much. you have chatto so you will never read a true nitrate po4 reading if it is real big. I would just focus on keeping things stable. I do that by 5 gallon water changes once a week. once a month I will do a 10 gallon

 

[Leicobra]

the sump light runs 6pm to 6am and I'm not harvesting any as of right now. I added the chaeto 3 weeks ago and its maybe doubled in size. I've been wanting to purchase an automatic feeder. Ill bring the lights down over this week. going to be doing a water change soon. Thank you for the help!

I've gotten rid of the dinos once before but the recently came back and with a vengeance. what uv sterilizer would you recommend besides the expensive brs ones? I think Ill tru to do a 10% water change a week and see where that gets me. The seachem purigen works on dinos?

Purigen helps removes heavy metals and organics in the water. Dino feed on diatoms and organics in our tank. I would also test your silicate level in your source water. High level of silicate will also cause your tank to have diatom blooms. With dino in your tank it's hard to see diatom and nutrient reading which gives you a false understanding that you only have dino. Infact, it is being consumed by dino. Keep you parameters stable. I will try to purigen and change out filter soaks daily first along with weekly water changes first. Get a auto feeder so feeding is constant. After the nutrients build up a bit,start the UV sterilizer. Install off your return pump with a ball valve to control the flowrate. I use a simple jetbao 40watt UV. Running it as your sump lighting schedule. Reverse daylight the best.

 

[Leicobra]

Double post

 

[sde1500]

Why are you dosing nutrients and running chaeto at the same time? Heavy in heavy out is one thing. But you’re not feeding heavy, just straight dosing nutrients while stripping them with chaeto.

 

[Paul B]

That tank looks to new, to sterile and not nearly enough rock. Besides that, I wouldn't add or remove anything or change lighting. I would throw out the pellet food and just use the frozen but thaw and rinse it a little first.

The rock is where bacteria live and it's the bacteria that allow our tanks to flourish, not additives or water changes.
That tank should straighten out and be fine, as long as you don't mess with it or add chemicals.

 

[lavoisier]

Be patient and let your tank stabilize. Don't add any more fish or corals for a while. Keep your parameters as consistent as you can. 8 months is still a new tank from my perspective.

 

[TheGreenReefer]

Why are you dosing nutrients and running chaeto at the same time? Heavy in heavy out is one thing. But you’re not feeding heavy, just straight dosing nutrients while stripping them with chaeto.

chaeto is an algae barn ball size of chaeto. i put in a few weeks ago after the dino died. wanted the chaeto to get a grip on the tank and be the primary source of algae in my tank. i was trying to avoid cyano and diatom bloom, didn’t exactly work the way i wanted to. i’ll probably have to take it out and. you’re right about the feeding though, an auto feeder is my next step and more frozen food.

 

[TheGreenReefer]

That tank looks to new, to sterile and not nearly enough rock. Besides that, I wouldn't add or remove anything or change lighting. I would throw out the pellet food and just use the frozen but thaw and rinse it a little first.

The rock is where bacteria live and it's the bacteria that allow our tanks to flourish, not additives or water changes.
That tank should straighten out and be fine, as long as you don't mess with it or add chemicals.

i might add some more rock then, i thought i was nearing too much rock. there’s probably a good 50-60lbs in the total system. i added the sand bed a couple weeks ago. it was a bare bottom for the first 7months, but i really like the look of sand better. i’m going to work on feeding better and use frozen more. what types of frozen food do you use?

 

[RJ F.]

Keep it simple. Feed more, remove chaeto

 

[Paul B]

i might add some more rock then, i thought i was nearing too much rock. there’s probably a good 50-60lbs in the total system. i added the sand bed a couple weeks ago. it was a bare bottom for the first 7months, but i really like the look of sand better. i’m going to work on feeding better and use frozen more. what types of frozen food do you use?

You can't have to much rock. The fish find food there, pods grow in it and bacteria live all over and in it.
Put it in, you need it.

 

[Pyrosteve]

I'm having similar issues. I think it's all related to PO4 slow growth and dinos. Feed more dry food and stop any nutrient export. You'll have some algae issues but that's the trade off.

 

[Mykawl]

Hi everybody,
I'm trying to get my tank stable, but I feel like everything I try isn't working. My nutrients are constantly bottoming out which results in a dino bloom which i fix with dosing nitrate and phosphate. what sucks about the dinos is I cant do many water changes. I've been dealing with this for over 6 months and I feel like I haven't seen any coral growth since the tank was set up.

Tank: I adopted this tank 8 moths ago. The previous owner built an amazing custom stand. It was running for a year before I owned it.
-40Breeder on a custom stand with a custom 20g sump
-around 70 lbs of live rock in the system with one marine pure in the sump

Equipment:
-skimmer is not working properly right now but is decent and rated for over 100 gallons(I have it turned off for 2 weeks now)
-4-5x turnover witha jaboe return pump
-flow 2x mp10 running at 60-70% reefcrest
-filter socks have been removed today

Lighting
-Kessil h80 to grow the chaeto in the sump (slight success)
-2x retro fit t5 blue plus bulbs
-mars aqua 300 watt
- schedule: 6am-5pm 60% blue led ; 930am-3pm 10%white led + t5

Chemistry:
-salinity: 35ppt
-temp 79.2F
-no3 2ppm, (bottoms out, currently dosing kno3)
-po4 (bottoms out, dosing kpo4)
-alk: 7.3dkh (tryring to raise)
-calc: 520mg/L ( trying to lower, I use Kalk in my ato for alk and calc)

-not running any carbon or gfo currnetly

Livestock:
-3 small clowns
-1 small yellow tang
-1 algae blenny
-1small royal dotty
-1 small azure damsel
-1 scooter blenny

-inverts: blue legged hermits(20-30) trocus snails(5x) nasarrius snails(5x)

-corals include zoas, palys, mushrooms, red monti, hammer, frogspawn, gsp, bta, candy cane(done the best, is actually splitting, bu very slowly)

Feeding
- once a day, most of the time pellets, but twice a week I use frozen mysis with seaweed

Any advice/ tips/ critiques about this setup would be greatly appreciated
Thank you!

Not sure if this was already covered but always use carbon, you shouldn’t have to worry about gfo with a nano just water changes which brings me to the most important, is your ro/di water 0tds? If not this is the main reason anything weird grows in the tank

 

[TheGreenReefer]

Not sure if this was already covered but always use carbon, you shouldn’t have to worry about gfo with a nano just water changes which brings me to the most important, is your ro/di water 0tds? If not this is the main reason anything weird grows in the tank

Yes, my RODI is zero. I changed out everything a couple months ago. Ill put some carbon in.

 

[sde1500]

Going back to your OP, the tank is young. Corals can take months to settle in and start growing. You can try moving them around after a while too. I recent had a blasto that basically didn’t grow for over a year. Moved it and it almost immediately sprouted 5 new heads.

I think you have plenty of rock based on the weight but the pic does make it look sparse. As for chaeto remove it. It’s to control nutrients, you don’t need it yet.

Start feeding more and a variety. You shouldn’t be running out of nutrients with a yellow tang in a 40 breeder. Also, I see no mention of algae for the tang. I think nori is better than pellets for them.

 

[Timfish]

Stop dosing phosphate and nitrate and feed your fish more and I would definetly be doing water changes to dillute the labile DOC being released by the nuisance algaes in your system. YOur low phosphates are potentilly detrimental to corals and keep them from competeing with the algae and increase the risk of bleaching. I would recommend reading Forest ROhwer's "coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" (kindle is $10). Problems are far more complex than just simple nutrients. Here's some links to read:

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/files/file/Nutrient%20enrichment.pdf

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Frontiers | Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont

Reef building corals associated with symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) can access environmental nutrients from different sources, most significantly via the up...

www.frontiersin.org

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with din…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We determi…

www.sciencedirect.com

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARYSeveral untested aspects of the regulation of inorganic nutrient uptake were examined using nutrient depletion experiments with the symbiotic coral Stylophora pistillata. The total inhibition of phosphate uptake in artificial seawater lacking sodium indicates the involvement of a...

jeb.biologists.org

Dosing nitrates inhibits calcification
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1890/13-1407.1

And I wouldn't worry about fixing your skimmer. Here's two of my skimmerless systems:

90 Gallon Mixed Reef

Mixed Reef started in 1997, 10-07-19