I own Reef2Reef and I am coming clean....

[WetWhistle]

I find peoples tanks nowadays are to clean and cause a lot of issue with growing corals. With how efficient the hardware is today's people over filter and use to many products to clean their tank and they dose to many things that they can't test for or don't need. Lets break it down. Corals like to use Nitrates and phosphates for daily metabolic needs and to low a level stops the cells from functioning properly for their daily metabolic needs. Dissolved organics are one of the primary modes of feeding for a lot of coral. LPS, Zoanthid and Palythoa especially need DOM, POM and particulate matter to feed on to really thrive and grow. Organics like that are nutrient rich and are used to go beyond the daily energy budget that corals receive from just light alone as a fuel source and are typically used to fuel and fire up growth and calcification rates because of how nutrient dense the organics are. If you filter this out to much your corals have no food to grow and put towards increased growth and calcification rates. Corals will then typically just get enough to maintain themselves but not grow. Sometimes not even that and they slowly waste away eating their own tissue as a fuel source. Food sources like detritus fit into the group bacterioplankton and are small enough for most corals to feed on and are nutrient packed and with today's skimmers are removed to efficiently.

I would get back to basics. Cut what products you use to only ones that are necessary for coral growth. Run your skimmer a few hrs a day or only a few times a week. Closely watch your levels as they rise as you don't want to go to the opposite and have to high a level. If you don't have some already add some Caulerpa or criptic zone to your sump. Help foster the food web so to speak. The microfauna that are produced by the Caulerpa and cryptic zone will greatly go towards feeding your corals and serve as a cleanup crew. A healthy food web is a healthy reef.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

I have been using Marco Rock.

Thanks!

 

[Topside Reef]

Thanks again and I am reading every one of these posts!

As you can see in previous posts, I have kept some semi-successful reefs. This problem I have been having as been going on for a while. It was happening when I had elevated Nitrates, different salts, different lighting, etc.. I have literally tried it all EXCEPT for trying to find rust. But I'm not sure that would be enough to cause me all this trouble. I could at least grow zoas and palys and recently they are starting to close up and act funny. I'll get it figured out so keep throwing out the ideas!

You all are the best!

Even with elevated nitrate the absence of phosphate renders it useless. I had this problem and have had much better luck after keeping detectable levels of each.

 

[klp]

I find peoples tanks nowadays are to clean and cause a lot of issue with growing corals. With how efficient the hardware is today's people over filter and use to many products to clean their tank and they dose to many things that they can't test for or don't need. Lets break it down. Corals like to use Nitrates and phosphates for daily metabolic needs and to low a level stops the cells from functioning properly for their daily metabolic needs. Dissolved organics are one of the primary modes of feeding for a lot of coral. LPS, Zoanthid and Palythoa especially need DOM, POM and particulate matter to feed on to really thrive and grow. Organics like that are nutrient rich and are used to go beyond the daily energy budget that corals receive from just light alone as a fuel source and are typically used to fuel and fire up growth and calcification rates because of how nutrient dense the organics are. If you filter this out to much your corals have no food to grow and put towards increased growth and calcification rates. Corals will then typically just get enough to maintain themselves but not grow. Sometimes not even that and they slowly waste away eating their own tissue as a fuel source. Food sources like detritus fit into the group bacterioplankton and are small enough for most corals to feed on and are nutrient packed and with today's skimmers are removed to efficiently.

I would get back to basics. Cut what products you use to only ones that are necessary for coral growth. Run your skimmer a few hrs a day or only a few times a week. Closely watch your levels as they rise as you don't want to go to the opposite and have to high a level. If you don't have some already add some Caulerpa or criptic zone to your sump. Help foster the food web so to speak. The microfauna that are produced by the Caulerpa and cryptic zone will greatly go towards feeding your corals and serve as a cleanup crew. A healthy food web is a healthy reef.

DOM and POM meaning?

 

[WetWhistle]

Dissolved organic molecules (DOM) and Particulate organic matter (POM).

 

[uppermost]

I think every reefer goes through algae problems at some point in time eventually but many keep it to themselves. My tanks has always been thriving for the almost 3 years it's been running. In the last 2 months I've been battling GHA that came from nowhere. I've been doing weekly water changes for 2 month's and manually pulling the stuff out but have not been able to beat it so far... Like I said this picture was taken after a cleaning this week but you wouldn't know I'm battling GHA. But if you look closely at the birds nest top right there is GHA all in it...

 

[s2nhle]

about 20 yrs ago, I had my first reef tank with dyi vho and metal halide. I dose cal an alk with auto top off and kalk. Now I have all of the best equipment and I am still in struggle with my corals.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

about 20 yrs ago, I had my first reef tank with dyi vho and metal halide. I dose cal an alk with auto top off and kalk. Now I have all of the best equipment and I am still in struggle with my corals.

That 2008 tank was Metal Halides and DIY VHO! HA! I'm not saying lighting is my issue because some of the most amazing tanks in the world are LED, Natural, T5, Metal Halide, etc. You get the idea!

 

[The Macro Guy]

My 2 cents, people now a days are running their tanks so clean, if it wasn't for the salt, you could practically drink from it. The ocean is not a sterile environment, to strive to make your tank such to avoid a patch of hair algae or a dime size piece cyano is only asking for trouble.

If you have the best of the best equipment available, try running it all at 25-50% capacity? Literally, dial down everything. A patch of GHA may be unsightly, but an entire base of bone white sps colony is even uglier.

 

[uppermost]

My 2 cents, people now a days are running their tanks so clean, if it wasn't for the salt, you could practically drink from it. The ocean is not a sterile environment, to strive to make your tank such to avoid a patch of hair algae or a dime size piece cyano is only asking for trouble.

If you have the best of the best equipment available, try running it all at 25-50% capacity? Literally, dial down everything. A patch of GHA may be unsightly, but an entire base of bone white sps colony is even uglier.

Not sure if your were taking a shot at my picture, but the GHA I was talking about has been killing the the base of my birdsnest...

 

[Sabellafella]

Sorry fellas i dont think this issue has anything to do with his parameters or stability or tinkering or rust. Revs an oldtimer in the hobby and deffinitly knows where the line is drawn, the only time to worry about a low nutrient tank is if your using pellets or dosing carbon, if he has fish and feeds them its good enuff regardless of the skimmer size (gfo could also be deadly) rev i wouldnt do any further waterchanges and give it some time, when zoas dont open its either the lighting is to bright or you have a pest(witch im pretty positive you dont lol), if they are melting or bleaching thats a wholenother issue

 

[The Macro Guy]

Not sure if your were taking a shot at my picture, but the GHA I was talking about has been killing the the base of my birdsnest...

No just saying in general, a spot of GHA on an SPS you can frag is better than running a tank so clean that you wake up and all your sps have RTNed. Like people running too much GFO, or completely depriving the system of water column organics. If you're on the extreme side of either end of the spectrum when it comes to reefing, you're always going to have problems. Too clean=problems. Too dirty=problems.

 

[Paul B]

Ummm, isn't someone supposed to ask for parameters?

Your animals don't care about the parameters.

Your tank looks better than mine. Forget about it.

 

[tweeter]

I see so many comments about the GFO. I'm wondering how many run GFO and /or ROX in a reactor. How often, and for how long? I'm currently running both, and don't want to over do it.

 

[tigerdragon]

I see so many comments about the GFO. I'm wondering how many run GFO and /or ROX in a reactor. How often, and for how long? I'm currently running both, and don't want to over do it.

I run both but maybe 1/2 the amount. I dont want to strip the tank just keep the po4 and no3 under control

 

[Terence]

Have you looked at the light intensity - as in too much? From what I can tell in the photo, most of those corals are fine in low intensity light and will actually suffer if there is too much light. Sometimes the combination of LED (where you really cannot tell with your eyes the top 30-40% of intensity, combined with crystal clear water, can mean par levels and aggregate light amounts (daily cycle) that far exceeds what the coral wants. Combine that with low nutrients for them to use that light and you may have an issue. Just speculating but it might be interesting to take some PAR ratings.

 

[cadmanof50s]

After spending un-imaginable amounts of $$$ on filtering and cleaning gadgets on my tank ...GFO reactors, Bio pellets, Carbon dosing, Algae Scrubbers and so forth and so forth ...my coral growth and color results were poor at best. Yet my first 120 g (which had only an external canister filter (!) , a protein skimmer and cheap T5 lighting ..grew coral like crazy). But the new tank, with a full blown sump, LED lighting, and lots of fancy gadgets, I could no longer grow corals. I would purchase frags and they would get very pale and experience an agonizingly slow death.. I blamed my problems on lighting, then on pH, then on alkalinity then on food, then on salinity, then on luck. My water quality was an incredible 0 phosphates and 0 nitrates. What was i doing wrong??!!
Just before I gave up and converted to a FOWLR tank I did exactly what WetWhistle suggested in post [HASHTAG]#161[/HASHTAG].
I got rid of my Biopellets, shut down my carbon dosing, shut off the light on my algae scrubber, shut off my GFO reactor, and even stopped using filter socks....(Yes! no filter socks).
Guess what? I can grow corals again!
Yes, my Nitrates are up and yes, my phosphates are slightly elevated..and yes I do have a tiny bit of nuisance algae growth...but the corals look great and I haven't lost one l since I made the big change!!

Now-a-days, I use a small amount of GFO, bi-weekly water changes (10%) and use a big skimmer, but no Bio pellets, no more carbon dosing, no algae scrubber, and no filter socks 5 days out of seven. I'm able to keep corals again...happy me.

Vic B.

 

[cracker]

The video was hilarious!

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

Rev you know there are professionals that could turn your tank around or your money back, right?

I was embarrassed to have reef friends over for the years I was struggling with getting this new system running smoothly and growing corals and know how you feel!

Scott your tank is amazing no matter what. I was floored when first saw it after RAP '14. Was bummed to miss it this year but I'll def be there 2016, with or without the silver fox

 

[WetWhistle]

After spending un-imaginable amounts of $$$ on filtering and cleaning gadgets on my tank ...GFO reactors, Bio pellets, Carbon dosing, Algae Scrubbers and so forth and so forth ...my coral growth and color results were poor at best. Yet my first 120 g (which had only an external canister filter (!) , a protein skimmer and cheap T5 lighting ..grew coral like crazy). But the new tank, with a full blown sump, LED lighting, and lots of fancy gadgets, I could no longer grow corals. I would purchase frags and they would get very pale and experience an agonizingly slow death.. I blamed my problems on lighting, then on pH, then on alkalinity then on food, then on salinity, then on luck. My water quality was an incredible 0 phosphates and 0 nitrates. What was i doing wrong??!!
Just before I gave up and converted to a FOWLR tank I did exactly what WetWhistle suggested in post [HASHTAG]#161[/HASHTAG].
I got rid of my Biopellets, shut down my carbon dosing, shut off the light on my algae scrubber, shut off my GFO reactor, and even stopped using filter socks....(Yes! no filter socks).
Guess what? I can grow corals again!
Yes, my Nitrates are up and yes, my phosphates are slightly elevated..and yes I do have a tiny bit of nuisance algae growth...but the corals look great and I haven't lost one l since I made the big change!!

Now-a-days, I use a small amount of GFO, bi-weekly water changes (10%) and use a big skimmer, but no Bio pellets, no more carbon dosing, no algae scrubber, and no filter socks 5 days out of seven. I'm able to keep corals again...happy me.

Vic B.

I did the same thing. When I set up my current tank after I moved it I originally had GFO reactor and biopellets and I noticed I was not getting the growth I had previously been getting in my old setup. Only difference between the two was GFO and carbon dosing. I shut them down and growth exploded. I was getting burnt spots as well on my sps when I was using GFO and that went away soon after shutting it down.

With that being said I found biopellets and GFO useful for the first 6 months or so when my tank was setup and new but once it became fully cycled and established they were not needed. I keep my tanks heavily stocked to. Honestly you are better off to have slightly elevated levels of Phosphates and Nitrates as I personally find my corals grow and color way better then when they are to low. I have a few friends that run ULNS and their tanks are so sensitive to changes compared to mine and grow and color at a slower rate.